zero point is great, but we don't have that. or rather, perhaps quantum is zero point, or noetic energy. Hammersmith was trying to draw energy from the ether afterall.

Actually we have technology now to make solar cells look like normal oofing tiles. We also have transparent solar cells that can function as windows. Soon every part of a building can be either photovoltaic or photoelectrochemical.

Not only would it be awesome if everything was covered in cells, but offshore wind farms (located where the wind almost always blows and nobody has to see the farm)with super efficient turbines (they dont look like windwills and can catch even small winds from any direction)can provide power sustainably to extract hydrogen from sea water.

AND...the GENI project proposes that we connect the entire world's energy grids across the Bering Straight...So that the light half of the world is always powering the dark half as the Earth rotates. http://www.geni.org

I went to an ecological design school so I know a bit about this stuff...


Seriously people dont believe the hype around nuke technology. There are far better healthier and saner solutions to our energy needs that don't require propaganda from the military industrial complex...

this timeline doesnt have fision either yet... Having Novas and Mega Int is all about makiing the impossible possible. Between us and Einstein we could invent Zero Point...perhaps by studying Lorean's quantum reactors...

Our technological expertise ends somewhere in the mid-21st century, were there was on zero-point generators, or Cold fusion, or anything else like that. We have what we have for mass production of energy. Wishing and dreaming won't light the houses or power the factories.

Note, we are industializing the entire planet. We will have energy need or our current world. Coal is the default energy source and what people will be moving to use. We need something in the next ten years, that they can understand and build.

So, we go for the solar panels on all new home construction and give tax rebates for retrofitting existing homes. We build the best hydro and nuclear generators we can create with 1950's~60's technology.

The stark reality of the situation is the team must do something and do it soon, or industry will forge its own path - which is fossil fuel usage.

Yes, we may end up having to create a totally new industry built around cleaning up nuclear waste, but time is not on our side.

Hyper-combustion goes a long way, add in the nova-tweaked green energy sources and the power grid is a non-issue on this world. Zero point is currently beyond your grasp however, aside from which, I would have to consider if zero point wasn't in fact quantum or noetic. We would have to have a discussion on it. Fission is doable though, you guys have that technology available. Keep in mind that these things build on one another. You have to have the ability to create the building blocks before you can build the castle. That is what you guys are doing right now and have been for the last decade, trying to put those building blocks in place so that the more advanced things can even be created. Except for something like Zero-point, its not about being able to think of how to do it, nearly so much is it is about having the infrastructure to build it. That's why it will take you decades more to get to where you want to be.

Good news. Ulric has already been pushing Green Technology in Europe and would welcome ways to clean up the areas already polluted in the Pre-War industrial areas.

Does anyone know how soon MagLev technology would be available. The sooner the Industrialized powers stop using coal all together to better off the world will be.

You should have the infrastructure for maglev by 1945. Technology should be advanced to the early 1970s level by then.

Sweet! I'm just imagining Maglev trains, inter-city transit systems, and bullet trains from Berlin to Moscow, Paris, and Istanbul.

Hmmm ... hypercombustion engines on jet aircraft, sea freighters, and military seacraft.

Which reminds me, Omar, who gets Turkey?

Cody and myself will vehemently oppose opeining pandora's nuclear box. There are other ways. Think like Novas. Think like Mega Ints. Think like comic book super science. Lorean is a great example of non nuclear vast energy. i suggest we start there. Sure we don't have it *now* but thats what having powers and smarts is about and we have nothing if not time.

The solutions are there. Just have to do the R&D

As for IC posting I just caught up in the thread and am leaving for work (again). If Im lucky I will be able to post at work if its slow. If not then later.

MagLev technology is electricity intesive. Most of the electricity is produced by coal.

ZPE is theoretical, yet observable. Here is a link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

I will go back to having too much time.

Don't worry my little German friend, Turkey will stay in the Central Asian Confederation.

That's the problem. The more technology we create, the more energy we TEND to need to use it. We also have to look at the 'reality' that Project Utopia wasn't able to create a viable energy replacement for fossil fuels in the published 17 year history we have of them.

Sure we have Mega-Int novas, but what we don't have is time. If we ever do create Quantum Tech or ZPE generators then we can dismantle the existing nuclear plants. The people will want to both power their society and use the cleanest energy possible. Have a little faith that they will want to do the right thing. If you don't then why aren't we a secret cabal like Project Proteus?

Actually, I forget just how efficient hyper-combustion was supposed to be, but that alone combined with the zushima-macrobe made the earth cleaner than it had been since before the industrial revolution. Also, after a certain point, Utopia went from innovating to trying to suppress new technologies, and it happened pretty rapidly. Rather than putting efforts into such things as ZPE they spent untold amounts of effort into policing technology to prevent 'disruptive and dangerous' things from hitting the market. I don't think it was a matter of such things not being considered, more that Utopia didn't want them available unless they controlled them.

Well, just keep us abreast on how energy demand stacks up against availability, with the added incriment of how long it takes to build new power facilities.

You guys are mega intelligent, you are intentionally releasing new technologies at a sustainable rate, and doing so with thought and care to prevent disruptions and societal crisis.

Added:
I should add that there is some degree of discomfort associated with the changes you are introducing. People are learning that they must adapt far faster than they might like. Education is stressing that change is nothing to fear, however, and that people should be expecting to change jobs more than once in their work lives. No longer can someone work for the same company from beginning to end of their careers.

I'm not sure that idea existed in the 1920's and 30's. Maybe someone could learn a trade (shoe making, farming) and do that for their entire life, but lots of farm-boys and such were moving to the city.

True with the farmboys and such, but folks would get a job in a factory and stay right where they were for the rest of there lives, or at least I thought so from what my elders said when I was young. That may not have been that universal, but either way, I'd say part of the education/indoctrination system ought to include the understanding that things are changing rapidly and people should be prepared to retrain more than once in their lives.

This may sound twisted - but if there was a way for "The Maid" to share a body without always taking full control and Joani was convinced she can be trusted she would give it a thought... I know this sounds crazy.

I've been the body in that kind of situation, but only when I had an "out" switch and at least some Psi-Shield. There are a few powers out there that really hit below the belt against this type of character.

And I'm convinced, both IC and OOC, she can't be trusted. Some of the things done to Joani just didn't need to be done. At best we're dealing with overconfidence, at worse some flavor of taint insanity (or both).

We don't need or want to re-recreate what Hammersmith was doing.

I would point out that this woman (if she is a woman) is in every sense a nova CRIMINAL. She kidnaps and enslaves people for her own uses.

Yes, it is a tragedy that she has no body of her own to live in(so she claims), but she didn't have to use Joani like a prize thuroughbred for the past year either. She enjoys riding other people's bodies. She gets off on it.

We can make her a deal to provide a Healed Brain-dead body for a new home, plus some sort of restitution, but let's stop playing her game. We shouldn't give in to her blackmail.

I think most of her threats are a bluff anyway. How much information could she have? How much would she really trust one of her lackeys? How many others could she have recruited into her plans?

Our Team has been careful. Let's put some trust in our ability to keep our conspiracy secret.

Thats because White Wolf didn't REALLY want a Utopian world..they wanted lots of angst and conflict. A HUGE part of Global peace is providing everyone with easy access to energy. When the World Game Institute met they placed GENI, the Global Energy Grid project as the HIGHEST priority. If we implement the total deployment of solar, wind, tidal and geothermal power, plus hypercombustion engines, the zushima microbe, greenhouse control AND link the grids from the light half to the dark half we will see so much progress.

Also, by using sustainable resources to harvest Hydrogen fuel from water and natural gas we can power fleets of ultra well designed fuel cell Hypercars (Google Hypercar or Rocky Mountain Institute..no time to go link hunting atm). The coolest thing is that when you get to work, your car pluga into its parking space, earning you fuel credits and becomming a generator in the grid, powering your workstation and then some. Buildings wuolod have fuel cell generators in their basements as well, plus feeding solar into the grid etc.

Also double layered windows and other materials and design science will vastly increase the climate control efficiency of our buildings further reducing waste.

This is all real world stuff we could do in the RW RIGHT NOW if we had the political will.


I as the player have serious issues in RL with Nuclear Power. i know enough of the history to know we have been cheated and lied to about it. It is not a panacea. Plus Ive ben to schools where the promising alternatives I listed above were studied in relative detail as well as systems theory.

Sorry if Im putting my RL beliefs into the character this way, but its not often one gets to roll play changing history and the world for the better and I want to use my RL knowledge and Cody's Mega Intellect to put forth some of the changes I KNOW are possible.


As for our Sphyinx, I don't trust her either. She is a snake. She abused Joani. We cannot let her escape. I would even go so far as to call her bluff, have Joani pull a "Fireman" and have Aeon step into the limelight to lead us into a new age. Moving up our timetable shouldnt hurt too bad if we do it right. We just need to be careful that our Zurich Accord doesnt just ensure Novas human and post human rights but that it recognizes Novas need to explore their abilities so we don't get another Divis itching to be free.

Speaking of which, Id love to hear Donnighal's thoughts on the matter ICly speaking...

Give him a call ICly speaking. Right now he's hip deep in his own R&D and working with Andrew's collection of the greatest minds of the age on sciency things.

Fox, really good villianess, btw.

heh, thanks.

In RL, the world has already seen a huge amount of progress between the 1920's and now. When was the last time you heard of the winds shifting and dozens or hundreds of people dying from air pollution?

Something that isn't remembered widely is automobile technology was a huge improvement in polution at the time. Horses generate waste, it dries up and gets in the air, people then breath it. New York was "the big road apple" because everyone who lived or worked there and went through the streets came home dusted in shit.

I'm not saying that people can't do better, but we've come a long way.

In RL, those promising technologies have been just a few years away for a long time. Nuclear's strengths and weaknesses are well known, well understood, and (most importantly) the technology works. The only other workable non-green house gas producing power source currently on the table is hydro-electric... which is normally not considered "renewable" because greens don't like it.

I've been hearing about renewable power for as long as I've been following the subject (20 years or so), and it does everything but work. Granted, it working is "just around the corner", but that's nothing new.

That doesn't have to mean anything in game. We can tilt the field lots by compairing a fully developed and researched (by novas) solar power plant to coal. Or if hypercombustion is an option now and not 50 years from now then we might just skip to it.
The problem isn't supers stepping into the light, it's explaining us. I.e. who and why the world has been manipulated. Why are all the newspapers saying the same thing, why have important people been changing their minds about important things.

If not handled correctly, this could lead to us being blamed for everything that is wrong in the world today. Someone's job was lost or their cow died, must be our fault.

There's nothing in the first one that did that. Problem is your right to explore your powers ends when you run around abusing other people. Divis' issues with the accord were more politically contrived than actual.

That's insulting snakes everywhere.

Near as I can tell she did what she did either because she gets off rubbing other people's noses in her superiority... or Joani's suffering meant litterally nothing to her. It bothers Steve greatly that there's no remorse there. He's starting to think we've got a phycopath on our hands.

Regarding renewable energy. The part you arent getting is that the efforts have been blocked politically for the last 20 years. If the political will was there to make a mass switch (or in our case build from the ground up) we could do it. Because the technology has been marginalized we havent been allowed the cost effectiveness that the economics of scale would bring. EVERY building, EVERY car.

Also, the most exciting developments (like those transparent solar cells and roof tiles) have only happened in the last 5 years or so.

NO NUCLEAR. WE CAN DO BETTER!!!!

it is more than just political. The cost to produce one solar cell is more than in pollution and cost than they are really worth in savings. SO FAR. We are just getting to the point technology wise where it is becoming possible to produce them affordably.

I assume you are employing subterfuge to draw her out.

Holy crap dude! This was your subterfuge roll:
10 9 8 8 8 10 7 1 +1 success from luck.

She is utterly convinced that you are breaking and that she is getting to you.

Joani should feel very inspired and uplifted by Ulric's words. He got 8 successes on his little speech. Of course he had 15 dice to roll, 5 of them megas.

Her face isn't giving anything away. She definitely has mega Wits,

Actually....solar cells today are made fromscrap left over from making computer chips. Cool huh? No reason we can't do the same...

you guys aren't up to computers yet though IG, and yeah, you will be able to do it much earlier in game than in real life because you will have the foreknowledge of the advance cells that are very efficient and can skip the trial and error stage, it will still take time IG. Your plan for the world's energy is excellent and will take them into the space age just fine, its just that you've only have 12 years or so to build up the base technologies that will lead to the higher ones.

Im okay waiting a bit on energy if it means bypassing nuclear. Our education and social problems (lessening population burdens) plus hypercombustion (possibly fueld by switch grass ethanol..petroleum is FAR too valuable an asset for plastics and chemical engineering to just BURN) should give us the time we need to get everything done.

RE: His Roll.
Looks like Steve’s dot of Mega-Manipulation came a bit early.

Steve is “The good cop”. It’s his job to be the nice guy who takes the side of the captured guy. In RL it’s a VERY effective tactic, and here it plays into the subjects desires and world image. Also, Steve appears to be the junior member. That means although he might be able to swing a deal with her, he’s going to need to argue it with the others. That means she’s going to have to give him something to work with.


True, but this isn’t a bad thing. The gov shouldn’t be picking winners and losers in the market because it’s not very good at it.

When people risk their own money, they build power plants that run on coal, gas, hydro, or nuclear. The rules they build by are “make it work and make a profit or you’re fired”. That should say something. The likely result of getting “the political will to make a mass switch” is lots of money being spent and little power being produced. I vaguely recall something like this being tried (in Germany?) with the result being that they buy a lot of their power from France’s nuke plants.

Given we’re quantum gods, I have to agree with that.