Don't worry, I wasn't bothered. I don't mind people pointing out stuff I miss or get wrong.

To dodge the forum-warriors, it's probably best to send me (or whoever) a PM in the future. That way, no-one else can jump down your throat.

Yeah no worries. I just wanted Procyon to know why I happened to be number crunching his profile in the first place that's all.

Question for Xiao's player. You took Shapeshift, using a single form only but neglected to specify what those dots would be used for. If its the same form every time, then it should be the same dot assignments every time. This also strikes me as a little bit unfair considering you could do the same thing with bodymorph but it would cost you as a level 3 power per dot. As of now it looks like you are getting 5 dots in level 1 or 2 powers but paying only a QP per dot. Seems a little broken IMHO...

Sky, I made that call based on previous discussions where using Bodymorph to assume a living form was considered to be against the spirit of that power. Given that Saori can only do a single form, the weakened SS was dropped to a lower level. The balance against the cheaper cost of BM is that when you activate BM, you always get those exact same results and level - in other words, if you have three dots of BM: Fire with Immolate, FF and Density Decrease, you always have those with the activation of the power. With SS, it's a roll, and the number of successes determines the number of stuff she gets to have. So if she gets three successes on SS, she has to dedicate the first to the form. The next two can go to a dot of claws and armor, but she's still getting less with the same number of things. Saori's pool for the power as it is currently is 10 plus a mega - assuming that roughly 1 die in 3 is a success, she's looking at 3-5 successes, depending on whether the Mega is feeling friendly. Had I gotten 5 dots of BM: Fenghuang, she'd be guaranteed to have the same result as if she had rolled 6 successes (since BM doesn't require you to use a success for assuming the form) with her SS - everytime. To me, the variance in SS makes up for the lowered cost, when its limited to a single form.

Also, you don't have to specify those dots ahead of time or use the exact same matrix every time. I often do, but it's not required. In the next day or so, I'll post her stats for the Fenghuang form.

Hope this helps you see where I was coming from.

You did it exactly the way it was meant to be done. Personally I'm thankful you didn't use Bodymorph, since Bodymorph doesn't actually allow you to change your shape.

Looks good, glad to see her back around.

Hmmm. And yet it is listed to one form. And as has been brought up ad nausem, shapeshift doesn't give one powers...it lets one take dots in powers that simulate the shape. Partial success means you may or may not have duplicated the shape propoerly. IE shapeshift into a falcon: 2 sux go to shrink and you put a third in claws, but you didnt get a 5th sux so while you formed wings, they arent really functional. You would need another success to put into flight or bodymod: patagia.

Does that makes sense? So by your logic if its one shape you should define the characteristics of that shape. Then lay out what each succes would buy you at that number of successes.

Sky, Dawn has done this before and she knows what she's doing. While you may be correct in the assumption that if she doesn't gain enough successes certain powers may not be available to her that's just how it works sometimes. Dice are a chance.

Also, considering she has done this before Dawn will provide the result of what successes will grant her, she did it with Kara and the list was exceptional. Her character is accurately designed within guidelines of the 200X rule set. Bodymorph (shapeshift) is an inaccurate house rule and is not the intended canon use of the power.

Let the players in 200X worry about the characters in 200X.

I would like to point out that statisticly speaking, 10 dice+ one mega give 4.9 successes on average. So she is still effectively getting 5 dots in level 2 powers, for 5 NP and 1 QP activation and maintenance. Seems cheap to me but that's just my opinion.

I'd rather see something like that as a level 2 power, not weakened to one. Since she already has flight linked to it the options I see available to her are armor, sizemorph, claws (which her background mentioned) density control, and bodymods. Seeing as how she could 5 dots in any of those the level 1 thing seems...exploitive.

Sky, here's the bottom line. This is going to be my last post on this matter. You and Dave can keep going at it, but I'm done. I've given my reasons, I've been backed by at least one other person, and I'm going to have the numbers on what her successes give later, I hope today.

If you're using the term 'exploitive' to imply I'm power gaming, I'm going to be irritated. I built this the same way I've built other SS, and they worked out fine. I hope that you'll give me a chance to get the numbers up and show you how I see the build working.

But you can take this statement as my final word: Until the mods tell me I'm wrong, I'm leaving it as is.

Dawn I was just expressing my opinion that getting an average of 5 dots in a level 2 powers for level 1 prices seems a bit much. Do what you will of course and be irritated if you like. After all, my opinions carry little weight around here.

Wow. That wasn't passive-aggressive at all.

It really wasn't actually. I am entitled to my opnion and I think its broken. Likewise it is true that my opinion means nothing here and that Dawn can do what she likes and be irritated. That wasn't passive agressive. It was a plain statement of the facts.

Passive-aggressive.

Whatever dude. Call it what you like but its still true. No one cares about my opinion and she is going to do what she wants. Thats neither passive nor agressive. Oh wait...Pretendy fun time games. Leave the psychoanalysis out of it.

Hows this for direct, not passive agressive rephrasing: I think her power is broken/cheeser but I know that no one gives a shit what I think. Better?

No, that's almost worse.

How am i supposed to say what I think then without being accused of being passive agressive? I have done my best to be as direct and clear as possible.

BTW I am Titus. And, like this:





Note my subtle alterations. Anyway, I'm done, said my piece. Just lettin' ya know.

I would like to point out that whether something is cheesy/broken falls to the perview of the moderators, not us players. I figure if something is wrong, the mods will say so and leave it at that.

If nothing else, what they do can be done again. Live and learn.

The success table for Saori looks mostly good. I would hasten to point out that shapeshift specifically does not allow the use of energy type effects like Qbolt or in this case Immolate.

Actually, "does not allow" is not correct; the power says that the ST may disapprove anything he or she doesn't feel is appropriate to the shape that isn't listed in their examples and it cites that any physical power is probably acceptable. It then gives the example that QB-fire isn't appropriate for a dragon. I find that example to be a poor one, as dragons often breathe fire and QB-fire would certainly represent that ability well. However, it is what they picked and I tend to file it under "YAWWI".

I stand by the Immolate being appropriate for a phoenix-like creature. However, if the mods or a sufficient amount of the active members of the forum objects, then I'll figure something else out. I'm not out to piss people off; I just want to do what is appropriate for the character.

I actually believe that example was intentional. "Generally speaking, Shapeshift may duplicate only only physical powers-" and then it cites the dragon energy emission capability not an acceptable use of the power.

Now, I know I'm not active (at the moment) in 200X, but neither are two of the mods, leaving Fox to take up the mantle. If this character was handed to me I'd say 'no'. Not because she isn't well written or because she's 'broken'. She's not, actually she very balanced. But once it's allowed to manipulate energy emissions than everyone who is already a monster or capable of becoming one will run roughshod over it claiming it's part of their theme.

Wakinyan for example, already being a Thunder God and a Griffin could, by the testament of Saori's write up, Shapeshift any power that deals with lightning or thunder, etc... just because the energy aspect of the power was filed under "Yaww".

She has an energy emission as a Shapeshift power and the core tends to lean towards no on that (I do as well, I think Shapeshift should be physical powers only). However this is not my table, nor is this my game to moderate (lucky for all of you...).

Personally I'd say 'no', but I'm an asshole around here and I know you all hate me so just go ahead and do whatever you like. *runs off crying*

...wow.

I came in here to post and found said exactly what I was going to say. A pleasure to agree with you! *checks for other signs of the End Times*

I'll consider what you said, Reven. It's a good point, regarding what other assholes would do if Saori was allowed as is - though I'm starting to think that we should have our own version of Godwin's law: if you invoke Waki in a discussion of powers, you've already lost. Anyone with other suggestions on what I could do instead of Immolate would be welcome. I am coming up dry.


And you wonder why people call you snarky and passive aggressive.

Normally what you would do in these cases is the same thing you did with your flight: take it outside the SS and make it dependant.

The funniest part of that is I was thinking the same thing as I started typing out that example: "I am so going to get Godwin'ed for this."



Simple. Leave it as is. There is nothing inherently wrong with the build besides that one minor issue and it certainly isn't a major 'kill all in my way, I am invulnerable!' power.

Nova's express their powers in a variety of ways, perhaps this is something unique to Saori. If you want other energy powers you'll have to buy those separately, but the long and the short of it is, she can Shapeshift Immolate and no one knows how. She should only be able SS Immolate after a certain number of successes, kinda like what you have now, and never on its own as a separate power activation... blah, blah... I'm just preaching now, but I think you know what I'm trying to say.

I don't see any reason the mod(s) wouldn't allow it, it's just one power and it hardly breaks the character or the setting, just the RAW... which are already poorly written.

A single form however is not a 10 point weakness, it's a 5 point. The power should be Level 2, not 1.

Oh, and for "A Lady's Thoughts Are Her Own" you have two dots in it and so would have 4 extra Soak/Successes, not two.

I think it makes a certain amount of sense to just buy Immolate and link it to SS, but really, not a big deal.

"Hello, Champion City..."

"Daddy's home."

I had to: that quote perfectly captures how I feel about revising Skein for 200X.

See you in the pages ahead.

You are correct. I fixed this by unbuying a dot of Psychic Shield, which gave me 6 (with the 5 spent on SS). I then bought 3 tainted dots of SS and adjusted the success chart (though I have left the Immolate for now). That should fix all the problems.

The problem with the immolate is that SHapeshift isn't supposed to be an omni-power. It is specifically used to alter form and you use dots in *physical* powers to *simualte* the properties of that shape. hence a nova can take the form of a dragon but that doesn't give them a flaming qbilt.

This sets the precedent for things like SS: Dragon (pick a color and take the breath weapon of choice!) or perhaps a better example in this case would be SS: Baalrog. What about a nova being able to *look* like a Baalrog gives them the ability to be on fire. I could see it working with a linked bodymorph and SS though. Shapeshift for the wings and size etc and then bodymorph to be made of "fire and shadow" with claws and a tendril to represent the flaming sword and whip.

But you get the idea. Does SS: Rust Monster give me the ability to disintegrate metal because its a property of the shape? No.

Also, keep in mind that sometimes you don't have a power, you have a power theme. Some things are covered by multiple powers, and yes, you have to buy them individually. Sad but true. I think in this case you would have to buy Immolate linked to Shapeshift, which is a waste of good nova points and quantum points both, but allowing Immolate sets a bad precedent for SS as an omnipower, as Sky said.

But then, I think Bodymorph is okay for simulating a single shape....it'd certainly work neater than what you're doing at the moment.

I am a big fan of Bodymorph: (creature x) as i feel it is an elegant solution. You pay the same cost for a Level 2 power, but you would get a set 5 dots every time, rather than the random roll.

I know there are others who disagree mightily with this idea and who strongly believe that Bodymorph should *only* apply to Bodymorph ("element" x). I dont want to start another argument about it please. Just stating my ideas.

Thing with Shapeshift is that your shape is weirdly fluid. If you don't get enough successes you just aren't the same creature...Bodymorph is static. You get the same thing every time, which is its downside, and is also what makes it so appropriate for this stuff, when you WANT the same thing every time.

What I would do with the shapeshift thing is give it the fixed result template from Density Control. Power Rating + 1 to spend on other things, than another 1 for each quantum point up to power rating + quantum. Or less if you feel thats too good.

And as for making it so you turn into the same thing over and over, make a weakness exception on a 'this case' basis only. Target Restriction 5, lowering it to a level 2 power. I mean, there are ways to do this without breaking the rules for other powers.

EDIT: And yes I know I am fucking evil for suggesting that Weakness and Strengths have the ability to not be retarded.