Like your post of definitions, it was merely an observation. I neither agreed nor disagreed with the voracity of what you said, I simple pointed out that the manner of your comment was apt to piss people off and be taken as rude. You seem to enjoy that, so to you go the consequences, whatever they may be.

Oh, and consequences is a neutral word, so please don't try to attack me on account of it. You seem to like definitions, go look it up.



That doesn't make rudeness acceptable. It simply makes it self-referential. Belonging to a group is not a shield against catching shit for belittling it.

This is the end of my politeness, so if you are offended by cuss words and strong personal opinions, cease reading.



On a personal note: fuck off, you pretentious prick, and grow up.

You really need to look up the term psychological projection, because as far as passive/agressive behavior goes, your reaction and your subsequent post, are perfect examples of it.

BTW, have you ever even lived in San Francisco? Have you seen some of the people who live there? I love them to death, but they definitely stray from the norm. Do you know how many parties I have been to, where I am the ONLY straight guy? You need to learn to laugh a little, not everything is black and white.

How do you know I was belittling them? Can you read minds? I mean, what ever happened to satire and self-deprecating humor?

I am an individual. I am not part of any group. I choose not to put myself into a box. I prefer independence instead.



So we resort to namecalling? How mature is that?

BTW, my anger was not addressed to you personally, only to the concept of 'social awareness', which, in this day and age, is used as a sledgehammer to shame others into abdicating their free speech rights. The concept of 'social awareness' is born out of the progressive movements of the 1930's. History tells us what became of those movements.

For the record I wasn't offended by this. In fact in the post he is responding to, I actually considered using the term deviant, again tongue in cheek mind you.

Of course we here in SF are proud of our deviant nature...check out the Folsom Streeet Fair. I think the cultural atmosphere here is just very accepting which makes it such a great place for artistic experimentation (unlike say Los Angeles, where art is geared more towards whatever makes money...and yes I grew up in LA so thats not flambait for anyone that lives there.)

More importantly lets not call Dr. White a Troll. namecalling is almost as bad: it serves to idealogicaly seperate and negate another person which makes it more likely to alienatate them and furthers bad feelings. We should all remember that what we find humorous might not come across that way to other people, especially in dry text from. That's what smiley's were invented for.

You are like, the last person in the world who should tell the members of this group what is and is not a good idea.

Just saying. . .

Whoa! While I was writing my last post things escalated! Take it from me, who hath learned the errors of my former inflamatory ways. We CAN all get along. Namecalling and profanity serve to lower oneself to the level of whomever one dislikes. Can we please refrain.

I don't think arguing over Dr. White's intentions is going to solve anything.

In fact this thread is so far removed from its original intentions I don't know why the mods haven't stepped in.


In regards to Flicker's initial post, congratualtions the new forum is doing nicely.

In regards to Revenant pulling his characters out from 2010...well...thats tricky. I think it (and the low posting rate in 2010) speak to peoples dissatisfaction with how that turned out.

I understand their are many or a few of you who want to keep 2010 alive. If so please do come forward and state why that is so, and why you enjoy the 2010 format. Otherwise I dont see why we shouldnt allow migration. People should feel free to play whom they want where they want. If something isnt working, ie making people happy don't try to hold them to it...

Not enough time has passed. You can't just declare this to be the case and expect people to buy it, especially considering the magnitude of the ruckus that had ensued. You have to show us that it's the case with continued good deeds.

Give it time.

Well regardless of what people are buying, I'm not selling. I am truthfully repentant and have made a sincere apology. Can I not contribute to the discussions that go on? And is it not okay for me to say that NONE of us should be stooping to any sort of namecalling.

I don't understand what it is about this community that lends itself to that kind of thing anyways. In my years as a member and mod over at EON we have only once ortwice in that time had to deal with any of the sort of flame posts. The one time I recall one about to start the mods squashed it immediately. The message was be polite and speak your opinions with respect or don't post.

I'm letting the thread go because I want to hear it all. I want all of this out in the open.

(sarcasm)

You must remember this Fool: Thou hath sinned.

You have offended by speaking your mind. Offensive statements, as defined by the burning bush of political correctness, are a sin. Sins must be atoned for. Until you atone, you will shunned and excommunicated. To atone, you have to be re-educated so that you see the light. Once you see the light and convert, you will be welcomed.

I've already been welcomed back. Sarcasm doesn't help (really).

Seriously. Lets steer this conversation back to the practical discussion of whether or not 2010 characters should be allowed to "migrate." It would be nice to hear from 2010 writers with a vested interest. I myself am curious why 2018 migration is allowed but 2010 is not. I have two characters approved for 2010 and one on the charter but haven't posted yet because I haven't had the time and inspiration. I say that because I have no vested interest either way.

Im just curious as to the pros and cons.

*rolls eyes*

While I agree with the sentiment that everyone should be able to speak their thoughts, you also have to accept the fact that some of those thoughts are going to be "I don't like what you said, how you said it, or it offended me, go away." Doesn't mean you have to listen, but you're carrying the torch of free speech, then carry it for everyone.

That said, just 'cause you can say what you want, doesn't mean people aren't allowed to react to it. You offend a large number of people in any group expect shunning, derision, or being ignored. That's how social systems work. You want to be a total individual that does nothing with the group? Get used to being alone.

I would hope that the group would be tolerant of others, and give others the same respect they would want when speaking their minds. We are all individuals within a social system. That social system must also repect the individual, or else it is fascist.

Many times I have seen Christians belittled and villified in here. Why weren't the posters treated like the Fool was? Surely what they said was hateful, and bigoted, and intolerant. What makes that statement different from saying something offensive about gays/lesbian? I'm an athiest myself, but I do believe in the statement 'let he who is without sin, cast the first stone'.

In otherwords, if you mock and belittle others, don't complain when someone does it to you.

This is my humble opinion on the whole thing. I understand I'm new, and all that, but hey. I like to think I've got a pretty good head on my shoulders even though I tend to think up some pretty 'out there' characters....

Subjective vs. Objective
Right vs. Wrong
Ali vs. Frasier

I think the best thing that can happen here is to agree to disagree and move the hell on. There are people on this board that if they ever actually met would probably throttle each other on the spot. That's the beauty of online role-playing. You don't have to think about the fact that you may be polar opposites socially / physically / politically / religiously / whatever with the person you're playing with. You deal with their character. If you don't want to deal with them, ignore them when they post OOC. That's it. Unless some serious persuasive skills are brought to bear, you're probably not going to change your opinion. If you want, give it a chance, let it play for a bit, but when the conversation becomes pointless(people saying "I'm right, you're wrong, nothing's going to change that" followed by "No, you're wrong, I'm right, why don't you get it?"--paraphrased) then stop, breathe, agree to disagree and move on with your lives.

Free Speech

My personal take on it is this. If you're going to villify and belittle someone, then stop before you do, and take a big dose of shut the hell up. I'm all about speaking your mind, don't get me wrong. However, when it comes down to pure, nonconstructive negativity, then it needs to stop. You don't call an out and proud lesbian a "heinous dyke bitch" and you don't call a conservative christian a "chauvinist god-slave pig" ((note - I apologize to anyone I've offended with that, not the intent... just proving a point)) Why don't you do that?(well, outside of the fact that it's just mean-spirited and generally fucked up) Because it serves absolutely no purpose other than stirring up shit and provoking flame wars. Which serve what purpose? Oh yeah, wasting time and pissing people off. Not a fan of the idea, personally.

If you want to say something constructive that people might not agree with, then say it. Go for it. Inspire discussion! Speak! Learn! Trade ideas! Yay communication! However, if you can't think of any good that would come from it outside of making yourself feel better or making someone else feel like crap, keep it off the boards. Kinda like yelling "fire" in a movie theatre, or "Gun!" on an airplane. Just one of those things you don't do because the ruckus that follows would just be nothing but bad.

Long story short, I'm with The Fool on this one. If you've got something good to say, then post(and not necessarily agreeing with everything, good meaning constructive and possibly contributing to the conversation). If you don't have anything good to say, then don't post.

2010 Characters

Don't know, don't have any, don't really care.

Would you all just knock it the fuck off. You're acting like a bunch of fucking 4th graders.

I'm going to make every effort to ignore the ugliness derailing this thread.


Pretty good. I like the interactions so far, though it still lacks the magic that 2018 held for me in its heyday. 200x doesn't match those times, yet, and I'm not sure it ever should. Anyway, I had a couple of things I'd like to see addressed:

• more Moderation vigileance in terms of what people are doing with their characters - we went almost a month before anyone brought up Mav or Vixen's low taint, and it went from not being on the radar to being a concern. I'd like to see this loose end nailed down, before we have another fit in chat about it. It should be noted that I don't think that we should require inhuman novas to get that way with Taint because, due to the cooperative nature of this board, we should RP that in fictions. Mav is a unicorn and therefore beautiful... to a little girl with an obsession about unicorns. He should be offputting to someone who doesn't like something that looks like an animal but isn't. With Vixen, you'd have people who like her for her looks, and those who hate her. I don't think that we should force the Taint on them, especially given the fact that they paid for what are essentially cosmetic effects. But regardless, it shouldn't have been an issue almost a month into the board.
• I add an vote to the "Yes, allow people to bring over 2010 characters. There are some great characters in that board, and they shouldn't be segregated from what is going on in 200x because they were introduced in the "wrong" place.
• allow some customization, now that the rush of starting this board is done. There should be some way to bring new things in. I have some ideas on how to do this, if the mods want to hear them.
• evidence that the mods have checked/approved characters. I know that my math isn't perfect; I loved it was checked in 2010, since that was part of the rules of the board, and that it was checked in 2018 by others, even though it didn't matter.
• I'd love to see the mods be active in noting when canon events were coming up - I don't know that you guys won't, I just haven't heard that you will either. Things like Slider's upcoming death springs to mind.

So far, those are my thoughts.

My apologies to rest of the people on this board. I have gotten rather worked up over this, as personal experience with certain types of people have lead to some of the most unpleasant/traumatizing experiences in my life and lives of those I care for. Also, I do not care for people who hold the banner of individuality, and then bemoan individuals that choose to belong to a group, and tend to get riled up at it. Suffice it to say, we are all opinionated people with a tendency for longwindedness and writing (otherwise why would we all be here, writing books worth of stories on people that don't even exist? ). No opinions are going to be changed, no great revelations made on people's motivations or world-views.

Hyo is right. Let's just get back on topic, and ignore the people we don't wish to interact with or learn civility. My apologies, Dr. White, for cussing at you. It was immature, overly emotional, and well beneath the person I aspire to be.

As to 2010 characters, I have none, but I find the question an interesting one to bring up. If writers in 200X can create whatever character they wish to play under the rules of 200X, and characters ported from the other boards cannot bring their board-specific histories with them, then isn't it a moot point?

Or is the question more to if they can bring them over without sacrificing a character slot as they can with 2018 characters?

Especially since I'm half considering taking Zer0 into Project Proteus. Was thinking directive, but they don't like glowing psychopaths. Proteus, doesn't really seem to mind so long as they're not messy.

I probably won't have him jump onboard(if at all) until after the 'big event' but....

I understand, we all get heated at times. No need to apologize. But thank you anyays.



To my knowledge, they are NOT paying for the cosmetic changes. They are simply stating thay have that quantum trait, and unlike bodymorphs, they don't pay for the change.

You're half-right; Vixen bought Body Mod: Kitsune, while Mav has Quantum Quirk listed at no cost (and bought 2 extra limbs - are those the wings, Mav?). Check their sheets for verification, if you wish.

That only makes my point more valid (re: Mod oversight and a solid ruling, which may be pending). This is being done two different ways by different characters/players. Grandfather in Vix and Mav, and solidify the rules.

And despite this, I still look at my fun vs. realism meter and realize that this is more fun to let happen. It doesn't hurt as much as it helps, so it still has my vote.

Maverick doesn't have wings. Those extra limbs are for his legs. Horses run a fair bit faster than humans. I took it at Mr Fox's suggestion.

Also, Vixen and I are using the same bodymod for the cosmetic changes. Presumably change comes with no obvious mechanical benefits. Mine does: horn and legs. So I paid for a horn and stronger legs(the bodymod). I paid for the obvious advantages of a horselike body(the mega-stats). I'm not trying to get more bang for my buck or rape the system or anything, really, truly, honestly. LOOKING LIKE a horse has no benefit. No cost. And it might be worth mentioning that if you squint it's actually sort of a flaw as well: Maverick has no arms when undormed.

Fair enough.

Okay, fair enough.

I blame myself for that. In the interest of encouraging activity in the first thirty days I ignored things which were questionable. However, I'd like to emphasize again that the moderators of 200X are not the only ones responsible for calling out questionable content. This is a cooperative venture and relies on the goodwill of everyone involved. We should feel comfortable approaching any other member of the group with our concerns-- hopefully before shouting becomes necessary. I've failed in that regard as an individual and as a mod. I'll be more observant, but I ask everyone to be more observant too.


It sounds to me like you have some idea already. I'd like to turn it around and ask you to present the idea for all to hear, analyze, build upon, and possibly approve as a group.


It has never been the explicit duty of the moderators to check every character or approve every character. We rely on the group at large to police each other and speak up when there is a question.


And we will be. Slider's death is coming up in mid May. I had planned to begin discussion of that in a few weeks' time. There will be a second nova Olympiad in the Summer, in all liklihood. (The first was Summer 2004.) I've mentioned these two events in particular before in this forum. When I get home from work I plan to post a link to a WW timeline page which lists all of the events of 2008 in the setting. It's very handy.


If we as a group decide to allow a 2010 to 200X migration--and every time the topic comes up we seem to be a little closer to that happening--then we will need to determine in advance how the allotment of characters will be handled. Also, out of fairness to those who have never participated in 2010, I'd like to suggest that there should be new character credit allowances made for those writers. How many 2010 characters can be ported and how many character credits for the other writers, I cannot say yet. Again--I'm like a broken record--I'd like to hear what everyone thinks.

-----

And now in response to nobody in particular:

Recently in chat I've seen "moderator approval" wielded as a bludgeon by one writer and against another. "Moderator approval" is not a tool or a trump card to be played by one writer to force their will upon another. Just because an idea is acceptable as presented to a mod, it does not mean that the idea is granted any special protection whatsoever. The overriding authority in this setting is the well-being of the group at large, which is to be determined by frequent polling of opinion and feedback, and overseen by a benevolent triad of autocrats. This is a group effort, and everything that is done should be done with the goodwill and consideration of the other participants in mind.

Also, in this setting there will be little granted to loners and malcontents, and there is no way one rebel can "win" a presumed fight. The purpose of the 200X setting is to be a harmonious one in which we create stories in as agreeable a manner as possible. Of course we all have different ideas of what is a good idea and a bad idea and sometimes there will be conflict.* Just remember that political maneuvering intended to bring about change against the will of others is also against the intent of this section of the forum. Be open, be up front, and be honest. We are all supposed to cooperate.

If this makes you uncomfortable for whatever reason, then remember that participation is optional.


(* Epic understatement.)

Having said that, what's the hold up? Less talk, more action. If the ideas are yours then use them as you see fit. Period. What're they going to do? Shake their fist vigorously at you?

The characters belong to the players. Frankly I think the 2010 'people' are being unreasonable. Pull your characters from play and do what you like with them. 2010 will crush itself under its own weight. Eventually the three people who do still bother posting can have all they fun they want together.

More power to them.

At this moment the 200X Bible disallows transfer from 2010 to 200X. That would need to be amended via the method outlined in the 200X Bible. When I was writing the 200X Bible I anticipated that this would be the very first amendment.

Funny you should bring this up. I've called people out, both politely and not so politely several times. It doesn't matter how I seem to do it it's always flipped around to me personally attacking other people or being a dick.

I won't deny it, I'm a dick. I'm a dick because I don't sugar coat bullshit or treat adults with kid gloves. We're grown, and we act like idiots we get treated like idiots. Most of the time I seriously want to help players. Other times I'm just curious why they did X or X, like why a rich girl like Alexis has Survival, or why Sujatmi only has Academics 1 but is a government agent it seems to me like she'd more education. Simple things, small things that sometimes we as flawed human beings fail to notice. Point of fact, Wargear helped me fine tune Revenant with a few mistakes I made. She was extremely helpful and I didn't bitch once... okay maybe once or twice... but still it was helpful.

It's now up to the point where people, when they do have a problem with me don't even say so anymore. They either talk shit about me in the chat room while I'm not there, or PM a whole mess of complaints to Vivi and ask her to deliver the message.

I'm just to the point where I really don't care what people do or create anymore. I don't have the right it seems to call anyone out in any capacity. Overload could drop a 1,000NP Devourer of Freshly Laundered Trousers on the boards tomorrow and I wouldn't even bat an eyelash.

Let the Mods handle it, I don't have a say in the matter.

Rev, you are right to do all of that. I'm glad you do. Genuinely glad. This isn't me trying to puff you up or anything.

Just. . . grow a thicker skin please? You're a glass cannon when it comes to interpersonal dispute. You always run away so quickly when someone has the audacity to reply to you. Let's break this into two groups:

The people who don't like you are not going to start liking you, so don't let them get to you no matter what. The people who do like you are hurt when you run away crying over something that we said in kindness that you misinterpreted as hostility, so please stop doing that.

*hugs*

On that note, Rev, I like it when people go over my sheets and ask me questions, so have at. I play Davian and Eve. Oh, and questions on Eve are a little hard, as she doesn't know why she has stuff.

I'm not a glass cannon when it comes to the counter attack. It's when I'm trying to be polite and someone spins around and treats me like I'm being an ass that I lose it, or simply just go away, this place is not worth me getting pissed off over. It's like a table here at home, if the bullshit is getting to hot people need to step away from the table and chill the fuck out. So I do, because if I didn't Chosen would have banned my ass by now.

Or most recently when I'm speaking in general and someone twists it into a personal attack against them, and then to me.

After the bullshit in 2010 when I left for six weeks to cool off I told myself I was not going to let this place bug me anymore, and I'm not. I've seriously gone from "Inquisitive Dick" to "I Really Don't Give A Fuck". When you guys start throwing your bullshit about (see the above several posts about San Fran) all I do is roll my eyes and scroll past it.

I'm desensitized to the bickering. I don't want to ask people why they did this or that because it's been so much head ache in the past it's not worth it anymore.

There is not a single player on this forum whom I do not like. Sure some of you irritate me more than the rest of ya, but we're all good people. Sure we have different opinions and gaming styles and we sure as hell can't agree on a damn thing but none of you are inherently bad people. For those that don't like me *shrugs* well, fuck em'. I'd sure like to know the list though, I hate it when people don't have the balls to tell me they don't like me.

To be honest, Rev, I DO like you. Sort of. You get on my nerves more than anyone else on this site, but you're a good guy, and you're a funny guy, and I'd rather play with you than without or against you. I admit when I first discovered this site I was pretty thin-skinned and new to the internets in general, and I let shit piss me off that wasn't worth it, but I've tried to remedy that.

But you're not the easiest guy to get along with. Seems like you have a tendency to, when you see a problem, go in guns blazing or just stand off to the side and make snide comments, when approaching it politely would serve you better. Sometimes dickishness isn't cutting through the shit, or being direct and keepin' it real. Sometimes it's just being a dick.

And sometimes what's perceived as dickishness is in fact just cuttting through the shit. That's another reason why I like you.

Flicker, thanks for all the answers. I appreciate that. I'll post my idea as soon as I can.

Reven: Alexis has a dot of Survival because she does spend enough time outdoors (or at least she did before college) to pick up a little bit of knowledge - moss is on the north side of trees, if you're lost, follow a stream, etc.

Let's keep the thread more on topic. This isn't about me and it shouldn't be. Thanks for the feedback however. Those with something to share with me shoot me a PM please.

On the subject of Body Modification: Special Effect.

The rule was proposed, by me, as a way of giving your character unusual physical features without dealing with Taint, which seems unable to decide if it's a generic you-look-and-act-weird system or a specific byproduct of pushing your quantum powers too hard. If anything it makes the choice clear: Body Modification is for you-look-weird, and power abuse is covered by Taint.

A lot of people think Taint is the focal point of the system. I don't. I don't think Aberrant should have a focal point beyond "world with super-powered people in it who come from all walks of life and do all sorts of things." I don't believe in there being a One True Way to Play Aberrant. And I don't particularly like the taint system, either, for reasons gone over in one of my previous posts in this thread. Body Modification: Special Effect is a rule that lets you skip all that and just say "they look like this" without puzzling out what aberrations they have, what Taint level they'd be, and so forth. It's intended to be simple, because sometimes simple is good.

People who claim a lack of verisimilitude make me raise an eyebrow, mostly because I have to look up what the word means. People who use the word 'believability' get a much quicker reaction out of me, however. I'm not sure how Body Modification: Special Effect threatens believability any more than Body Modification: Wings does, or having five dots in taint leading to said special effect as an aberration does. You're free to decide how your character acts rather than slapping a universal social penalty on a particular nova. You can decide to react with a +1 difficulty, or a +2, or a +10, or nothing at all or with a bonus - or, if you wish, with a slightly more complex reaction than 'you feel good/bad.' Your reactions to the character do not have to change if you don't want them to.

There's the germ of legitimate complaint in the notion that the penalty being un-universal means no one has to react the same way as you, but I'd argue that makes it more believable because not everyone reacts the same way to the same thing. What looks, sounds, feels or tastes good is a matter of personal taste. If you disagree with me, do so only after listening to a twenty year debate on whether or not peas go in chili.

I won't begrudge anyone who wishes to run screaming away from Vixen - or anyone who wants to stick around and chat. (Incidentally, I'd argue the same thing even if there are codified social bonuses or penalties in play - if anyone wants to watch Knockout's YouTube video and go, 'mmm, tits are too big,' they can go right ahead.) The decision is entirely in the other player's hands, as it should be under the rules of consent.

People claiming a numerical problem really puzzle me. I'd legitimately like to know why I must pay for an unusual appearance that is defined as having no numerical effect. It's like paying to have your Force Field be green, or your quantum bolt to shoot from your eyes rather than your fingers. Even noticeable changes in how a numerical effect works aren't codified by nova points. We don't make people pay less for Quantum Bolt: Fire over Quantum Bolt: Energy That Doesn't Get Blocked By A Common Substance. A special effect has no inherent bad points and no inherent good points, other than "the player wants it."

I'm sorry if I come off as defensive on this point, but when people claim that I'm abusing a rule I came up with I tend to get snitty. It's not as if I've run Vixen's life free of problems - just that I'd prefer not to filter those problems through a universal filter of 'everyone must react a certain way and her appearance has a specific cause.' Like it is said in the Bible, this is a writing-heavy forum, and I'd like to hope I write interactions a bit more complex than "it's at +1 difficulty and you get two successes."

I do have to ask if this IS a legitimate concern, or just a result of the Monthly N!Prime Collective Brick-Shitting, which arrives with such regularity that I could set my watch by it. At times like these, minor complaints that people are happy to live with get magnified into crimes against humanity and mockeries of all that is good. Rest assured, I didn't intend to mock aberrations with Body Modification: Special Effect. If I do set out to mock something, it will be made very clear that I am doing so. TekTek avatars may be involved.

Thank you for reading, and good night.

Amen man.

so when do you think you'll decide to mock something?

So, you're saying the boards pms?

*Grins* I'll keep that in mind next time and bring chocolate.


For anyone who can't tell, I'm joking.

This is precisely why I wanted you on the mod team.

Love aside, your post is clear, easy to understand, sensible, and awesome. Thank you.

If I had known this joke was coming, I'd have started the thread on the 28th day.