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#113213 - 05/15/08 10:50 PM
A Meeting of Minds
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Nova
Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 1769
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After resting for a good long time and spending a day in seclusion and meditation to clear his mind Cody asks Lorean politely if she will call together a meeting of the command crew, as well as Kyria.
When all have assembled and been made comfortable he begins.
*I know we have all been put through the wringer for the last several days, and it seems that decades of work are all about to be for naught. I have an idea for addressing this, but first I have something to say.*
*I would like to aplogogize for my many years of abscence and withdrawal. I thought I was helping, doing good work behind the scenes but the trauma of recent days,* he looks at Kyria in what might be a meaningful way but its difficult to tell through shiny opaque metal. *has shown me how that distance, that secrecy has served only to wound and weaken our team. I am sorry. I should have been here more for all of you, as you made yourselves at home. Created families. I have always had one foot out the dimensional door. Never let anyone is here.* He taps his forehead.
*As for our current dillema: We have created a world in our ideal image, through manipulation. Through subtle layers of influence and camoflauge. Through our own hubris and sense of pride in what we knew to be true. We have saved this world from the spectres of our own history and we are now walking an uncharted path.*
*I think it is time we let our child grow up. If we can be victorious in this crisis...if we can keep our house of cards from shattering around us...we need to tell this world the truth. We cannot protect them from the ravages of human nature. Whomever is behind this most recent plot, just like Caroline is driven to power, or at least resentful of that which we have wielded.*
*I propose that if we succeed, we tell the people of this Earth the truth about us...about our arrival here and our work to prevent the cataclysms of another place and time. We offer them our own history, show them their own, and let them decide if they will follow in our footsteps or revert to the old ways of fractured peoples and petty war-profiteering. In order to drive home the stakes of those decisions, we reveal as much as we dare of the alien foes arrayed against us, across multiple timelines.*
*When that is done, those who wish to remain home, here, with their new lives and new familes, may do so. Those who will join me in exploring the megaverse will take Lorean and leave, lest the people of this planet go to war over the ability to surf the currents of time.*
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#113355 - 05/17/08 04:36 PM
Re: A Meeting of Minds
[Re: SkyLion]
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Nova
Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 307
Loc: Berlin, Germany (1923)
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"Except this current crisis isn't about us, or caused by us. It is an alien infestation into Earth's Society and only our presence is giving the Earth a chance of success." Ulric shakes his head.
"We could have had this discussion ten years ago and then what would have happened? Earth would have been lost to this invasion. Even then, it isn't a fault in our Society, but simply a matter of strength and organization of our enemy. It happens."
"I am, in fact, in favor of leaving, but I feel we should do so quietly and with little fanfare. We have worked behind the scenes quietly and our work should remain in the shadows. What good does exposing our efforts now, except as some personal sense of purging a percieved injustice." "Seriously, what do we do if charges are bought against us? Stay and face charges of Crimes Against Humanity? Leaving Lorean to League hands? Or do we undo much of the good we have done and flee? I'm sure the Paragons would appreciate their legacy being so sullied."
"Secrecy served its purpose. It has allowed us to move through this Society and accomplish much. It has allowed us to have children, and families, and lives, and it is for those children, friends and family members that we are leaving behind that we should also keep that secrecy. Life is not clean and neat, and we shouldn't forget that in a quest for individual penitence."
"I say that I will be leaving once this crisis has been dealt with. I feel we have do well and deserve exiting the stage with dignity. Even though this is my home, I know my time here is done."
_________________________
Auf der Suche nach der Wahrheit.
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#113481 - 05/19/08 09:00 AM
Re: A Meeting of Minds
[Re: Courier]
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Nova
Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 1202
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Andrew slaps his palm into his face with a muttered "D'oh!", sliding it off slowly he looks at the others. "No pressure eh Steve? I appreciate your confidence but we are a LONG way from a cure, even if you and the others jumped a hundred years forward and I stayed behind, working either as myself of switching to a new guise, I do not know that I would have a cure upon your return. I would be closer, yes, for certain that I would make headway."
He pauses looking to Steve, Morgan, Lorean, and Joani before nodding to himself. He takes a deep breath and continues. "But what of myself? I also have something that I must tell you all, a secret I have been keeping. In the past sixty years most of us have accumulated some degree of taint." He pauses, unsure of how to continue, "Just throw it out there," he mutters to himself. "What most of you do not know is the price I personally have paid in taint, and the price that some of your fellows have paid as well. I'll not expose any secrets but my own here, it is not my place.
"I don't know of any good way to explain this. For nearly sixty years I have suffered from the effects of a taint induced physical need. Steve, Morgan and Lorean have known for some time now and have helped me to deal with it. I cannot for certain pinpoint when it occurred but around the same time that I found my body lost its requirements of regular food and sleep I became dependant on the consumption of human stem cells. This need has driven me all but mad. I have fought through it with the support of those I felt I could tell, and it has pushed me to make the advances in medical science that I have made. My procedure to transform normal cells back into stem cells has saved millions of lives, but I created it not for the people of earth but to ensure that I would have a steady supply for myself.”
Andrew pauses for a breath, holding a hand up to forestall comments. “In addition my experiments with the ability to split my form have met with limited success, while true cloning it yet beyond me I can give form and mind to smaller portions of myself, homunculi. These too are touch with taint as they appear to have their own separate will and personality outside my own.
“You are all no doubt wondering why I chose this moment to bring this up. The answer is that it matters to me, that you understand why I am chasing after a cure for taint like a madman. Why all of my personal time goes to this quest. And it matters because you must understand my evolution continues. Should you jump forward a hundred years to you it would be but a moment in time but were I to stay behind to continue my research I would surely continue my degeneration even as my powers expand, and without you all, without my support system, I cannot say what would become of me.
“My point is that while I agree with Ulric and Steve both, I wish to make it clear that waiting around for a cure to taint should not be the sole reason to stay within this timeline. I cannot say how much more time and effort will go into my research before it yields fruit. I can only say that it will be some time and that with your help and support I do intend to see this through no matter what the personal cost to myself..”
_________________________
That's right; one can make all kinds of explosives using simple household items... If one were so inclined. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ theplourde - Dr. Raphael Bradford - Callum Uallas
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#113493 - 05/19/08 10:07 AM
Re: A Meeting of Minds
[Re: Joani Reikspar]
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Nova
Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 2909
Loc: Everywhere
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(To Joani) Steve says,
"Can we move back and forth? Yes, we can. But there's a price that comes with that option. When we come back, we create timelines where we didn't come back. These other timelines are no less real for our not seeing them."
Steve pauses and continues,
"As for the law; The seriously illegal and unethical stuff we did was mostly before laws existed or has long past the statute of limitations. That's not to say people wouldn't react as Ulric says, but their legal options would be limited. They'd probably pass a law saying we had to give up Lorean... but since she's a living person even that would be tough."
"As for ethics and the murder question, the life boat experiment applies here. A ship goes down, 20 people survive and are next to a lifeboat that can hold 10. The water is freezing. If they all get in the lifeboat will sink and they'll all die."
"Many schools of ethics hold all of them have to be treated equally, which means they all die. In real life when this happened the Captain picked who lived and who died. He saved who he could, so do we."
(To Andrew) Steve says,
"We're not leaving you behind. Freezing you and putting you on hold until a cure is found maybe, but trading you for a cure is a false choice."
"I think you're underestimating the forces at work here. So far you have carried the bulk of the research burden. But the rest of the world is catching up. You're still the best, but lesser minds can look into this and contribute now."
"Think of it this way, assume we're a billion man hours away from a cure. That's half a million man years. If one hour for you is 1000x that of a baseline, it'd take you 500 years. But for 50,000 researchers that's only 10 years."
"Problem historically was those 50 thousand researchers didn't exist, but the one nova did. I think we can throw enough resources at this to make it happen."
_________________________
Hauling things through the sky.
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#113502 - 05/19/08 10:33 AM
Re: A Meeting of Minds
[Re: Courier]
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Nova
Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 1202
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Andrew smiles, "I rather like being a Murphy, changing my name to Stouffer or Swanson is not an option I'm willing to take, but thank you, I know you won't simply sacrifice me for a cure. That said I do well know the forces at work here. While your math is correct what you fail to consider is A) Catch-up time, and B) that at best there are perhaps another two dozen nova doctors in the world, and not all of them are working toward a taint cure.
"Basline researchers can help with lab work but the mental heavy lifting involves complex interaction between quantum physics and medicine, it's not something that everybody is capable of, even the super smart require the proper training and knowledge. As for point 'A', I couldn't say how much further along my knowledge base is as compared to Morgan but as compared to the others out there," Andrew shrugs, his expression somewhat guilty, "I'm quite a ways ahead of them. It was easier to simply rely on myself once I started to understand how much extra knowledge I could not share because of what Lorean gathered from the other timelines as well as this one."
Andrew shakes his head, his face flushed red, "God I must sound like a pompous arrogant ass. Fact is that I am the best qualified to continue this research. This timeline is also uniquely suited to help me accelerate my research and as thing move forward more of our fellows will be able to help me and more of the sensative reasearch from Lorean's databanks I will be able to make safely available to those same fellows. Five hundred years no, perhaps one hundred, perhaps less. I cannot say for certain. The only thing I can say for certain is that without a support system I may never get there. If my evolution continues apace it is only a matter of time before I fall to taint, even given the extreme measures I have put into place to slow it down."
Andrew smiles, trying to look confident and sure of himself. "I ask you to stick this out for the longer course. We made our bed and we need to sleep in it. We know that jumping from timeline to timeline will allow little long term success, better to stay here and move forward, if you feel the need to go public do so, but this timeline is ours, we built it up from the point of divergence, we should feel some level of responsibility and stick it out. We owe it to ourselves, our children, and the world to do so. I believe that the prize for our efforts will be worth the effort. When the time comes to move on, we will know it, and we will be that much better prepared to continue out into the multiverse."
_________________________
That's right; one can make all kinds of explosives using simple household items... If one were so inclined. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ theplourde - Dr. Raphael Bradford - Callum Uallas
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#113520 - 05/19/08 12:49 PM
Re: A Meeting of Minds
[Re: Ulric Reikspar]
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Nova
Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 2909
Loc: Everywhere
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"There must be a way to take the scientific work to date with us. Maybe get away from our home will give us all the chance to examine this problem and work for a cure together. Then we could return with something worth-while besides ourselves?" Steve says, "Andrew and Morgan may be the point men but we have tens of thousands of people supporting them on this. If we left we'd have to find some way to rebuild that infrastructure where ever we went. There's a lot human resources and intellectual momentum here." "Although..." Steve looks at Lorean, "...is it possible that we understand the problem well enough that Lorean could just find a timeline where a solution has been created?"
_________________________
Hauling things through the sky.
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#113548 - 05/19/08 07:59 PM
Re: A Meeting of Minds
[Re: Courier]
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Nova
Registered: 12/07/06
Posts: 493
Loc: Baghdad, Iraq & Texas USA
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Omar, who had until this point kept silent, finally spoke.
"If it is a cure for taint we want, why not go back in time.. say 150,000 years. Then we build a self-sustaining underground lab miles underground, and spend 50 or so years building it." Omar though it was a good plan. He hoped the others might wee some merit in it.
"Then when it is finished, we come back to the present with the cure in hand and use it."
There was the matter that was initially under discussion. Omar spoke up about it too.
"I think we should leave and let things unfold as they will. We can observe what happens from afar."
With a big grin he continues: "Once they play their hand, be it for chaos or power, we can expose their conspiracy through our media sources. They can't hold onto power if the people know the truth and are rallied to oppose them. It might also be a lession for others that no matter how hard they try, their schemes will be discovered and they will be deposed. Of course if it is chaos they are after, we could make sure that they are caught and punished. We will have no need for the cloak-n-dagger stuff. The law would prevail in this instance."
Omar leaned back in his chair and let the pieces fall where they may.
_________________________
A man of character will make himself worthy of any position he is given. -Mahatma Gandhi
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#113573 - 05/20/08 06:51 AM
Re: A Meeting of Minds
[Re: Courier]
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Nova
Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 1409
Loc: Berlin, Germany
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Steve says,
"Joani, the Captain took a side arm and ordered 10 people to swim away from the lifeboat to their deaths. He was brought up on charges and let go for obvious reasons, but he murdered 10 people. Yes, that was an extreme case, but we're in another right now."
"We have worked very hard to eliminate the choice of evils, but even we sometimes get forced into it. We choose to deal with the politics and economics of the world back in the 1920's rather than Malaria for one example of many." "I suppose I'm not trained or experienced enough for these kinds of extremes. All the time I was wondering what the hell is going wrong and if its only me but now I realised the truth. At least from my perspective. I owe everyone here my life and I've put all my efforts in paying this debt back and contribute to what we've built. But all the time, while some of you have kept their minds set on the day when you finally can leave this place, my mind was set on protecting this earth and representing the Paragons. You all talk so easily about leaving this timeline... but you talk about my home... the only thing I've got left after Caroline took everything else away from me. If it wasn't for Ulric I surely would have lost my mind by now.", Joani looked frustrated to the floor. "I guess I have to apologize to you all and focus on what I can do and leave this the rest to you. But the more time I spent with this... this debate the worse I feel and I don't want that. *Lorean, Please forward this to Joani but not Morgan: Morgan can cure anyone of anything short of old age. So for the last 80 years, almost everyone who has died of anything other than old age has been an example of him choosing not to save them. I suspect he stays sane by not thinking about it.*
*It's ok, Steve. I'm not saying anything about this anymore. Sorry to have wasted your time.*
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#113575 - 05/20/08 07:34 AM
Re: A Meeting of Minds
[Re: Joani Reikspar]
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Nova
Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 1202
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"My freind, if it were that simple I would have long ago found a cure. While a self automated lab could synthesize just about anything what would it test upon? Taint is not merely a malaise at the cellular level, its effects are macrobiotic. In some case such as mine, quantum energy can sustain my body indefinately without food or sleep, at least in theory. But taint has made it so that I am dependant on stem cells to continue to process and store quantum energy. Caroline's taint destroyed her ability to reconstitue her body and altered her perception of reality driving her power mad.
"Even assuming that we could program a complex AI to perform the tests such a lab would require test subjects, people willing to try cures that made it past early stages of testing." Andrew sighs, "No this is not something we can simply wish for, and gain by way of the wonders of time travel and cross dimensional hopping. Much like our ideal of a unified earth we must work toward this goal the old fashioned way."
Andrew turns toward Joani sadness in his eyes, "Joani, I understand your attachment to this world but you must understand that much like a child this world eventually needs us, its parents to step away, else it will never walk on its own. Instead it will always look to us to guide it, to protect it, to tell it how to behave."
_________________________
That's right; one can make all kinds of explosives using simple household items... If one were so inclined. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ theplourde - Dr. Raphael Bradford - Callum Uallas
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#113836 - 05/22/08 03:13 AM
Re: A Meeting of Minds
[Re: Ziggurat]
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Nova
Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 1769
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((Y'all gave me alot to work with so here goes...)) Ulric speaks: ..."I am, in fact, in favor of leaving, but I feel we should do so quietly and with little fanfare.... Surprisingly, Cody nods. The only one who might suspect something is off is Steve, having worked with Cody for so long. It is unlike him to simply turn about on his own ideas. *Agreed.* Steve speaks: ..."What we may want to do is just fast forward a century or two. Maybe tell people we're taking Lorean out on a trip and not come back. See how our baby grows up, see if we need to make changes."
"Thing is all this political stuff is really just a side show. Yeah, it's nice to build a perfect world, but Andrew and Morgan's medical studies are what we're really here for."... *This seems like a good idea on the surface. I'll need to plot out some timeline variables on Lorean's mainframe...* Joani speaks: ...“I don’t know if I can just turn my back and leave. I understand the greater scope of this but after all I’m still human. I can’t believe that this is the only option left and I agree with my husband. IF we reveal the truth about all this it may as well give reason to question our motives and put us on trial since we put ourselves above everyone else. Even if our motivation has always been sincere and truthful to the benefit of all humankind… How can you justify a murder for the greater good? It’s still murder. Sometimes I feel like I’m the only one who struggles with her conscience… am I that naïve?”... *In a word, yes.*
*I know you don't much like me Joani, or what I represent, but the truth is: war is Hell. I don't expect you to be able to fully grasp what I mean. After all...you were born here, after half a century of our machinations. To you there was no World War, no Vietnam. No Korea and no Middle East. In fact, I really should commend you: You are precisely the type of moral citezen we strove to create when we entered upon this mammoth project.* Andrew's revlelation: "I don't know of any good way to explain this. For nearly sixty years I have suffered from the effects of a taint induced physical need.... Cody seems somber though unsurprised. Given his level of connections and intrigue he had suspected as much for quite awhile though had chosen not to pry out of respect for his friend. *Perhaps more than most here I can understand what you are going through Omar. Of all of us, I have lived with taint the longest. However, in all this time, my condition has not progressed nor worsened. I attribute this to my rigorous meditation practice, and by exercising utter restraint in the use and training of my powers.*
*I agree with Ulric: You should have come forward sooner, though it doesn't take a telepath to sense the shame that thought must have caused you. In your frenzied search for answers you may have been exacerbating your condition. If you like, I would be willing to offer instruction in the techniques that have kept my condition stable for the past century. Aside from that, please know that I have been following your research for some time: I am among those who await to congratulate you on your success.* Omar speaks: ..."I think we should leave and let things unfold as they will. We can observe what happens from afar."
With a big grin he continues: "Once they play their hand, be it for chaos or power, we can expose their conspiracy through our media sources. They can't hold onto power if the people know the truth and are rallied to oppose them. It might also be a lession for others that no matter how hard they try, their schemes will be discovered and they will be deposed. Of course if it is chaos they are after, we could make sure that they are caught and punished. We will have no need for the cloak-n-dagger stuff. The law would prevail in this instance."... *There is one aspect that gives me pause when it comes to considering the implications of jumping through time: The aliens. It is not just a matter of exposing a conspiracies ploy for power, as it was with Caroline. It is a fiendishly calculated attempt to obliterate our species through interstellar war. Even if we achieve a peaceful ceasefire with the Chromatics, should we not root out the core of the alien conspirators, they will inevitably find other pawns.*
*Even so, there may be other factions awaiting a weakened Earth. The asteroid lobbers come to mind and we still don't know how many foes we may yet face.*
*It is for this reason I plan to leave and seek out the Watchers. We can no longer interfere with their plans: they hardwired that into Lorean. However I would like to try and communicate with them. Perhaps they would be willing to clue us in if we convinced them that their enemies are our own.*
*However as Steve has suggested, when we do leave this timeline, we have to be prepared that it may never be as it was. The mechanics of temporal flow may shunt us into a close proximity, but there are no full guarantees.* Joani speaks: ...You all talk so easily about leaving this timeline... but you talk about my home... the only thing I've got left after Caroline took everything else away from me. If it wasn't for Ulric I surely would have lost my mind by now.", Joani looked frustrated to the floor.
"I guess I have to apologize to you all and focus on what I can do and leave this the rest to you. But the more time I spent with this... this debate the worse I feel and I don't want that. ... *Thank you for your apology Joani, though given the circumstances, I hardly think one is warranted. Of course you are welcome to stay here. I wouldn't dream of forcing you from your home as we once were. However it sounds like Ulric is eager for exploration so that may yet factor into your decision.*
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#113862 - 05/22/08 10:17 AM
Re: A Meeting of Minds
[Re: Joani Reikspar]
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Nova
Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 2909
Loc: Everywhere
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...I think I was never real part of this cabal – just another tool to achieve ‘our’ goals.”, she looked at Cody while she spoke and let her eyes wander to the others when she finished. Steve replies, "Joani, it was mostly you who prevented us from becoming what we were fighting. Most of us saw first hand the extermination of mankind, and we were willing to do anything to stop it. That was one of our strengths, but it was also our greatest weakness." "To halt the darkness we didn't just have to deal with the human monsters like Stalin who were trying to take over the world, we also had to take over the world ourselves. Power is seductive. It would have been very easy for us to shift from preventing evil to helping ourselves." "Becoming and doing evil in the name of fighting evil is an age old problem. We are one of the greater threats this planet faces. We have far too much power, and worse, we have excellent reasons for keeping it." "Your perspective has been and still is an anchor, without it I think we'd drift."
_________________________
Hauling things through the sky.
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#113894 - 05/22/08 04:05 PM
Re: A Meeting of Minds
[Re: SkyLion]
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Nova
Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 1202
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Cody seems somber though unsurprised. Given his level of connections and intrigue he had suspected as much for quite awhile though had chosen not to pry out of respect for his friend.
*Perhaps more than most here I can understand what you are going through Andrew. Of all of us, I have lived with taint the longest. However, in all this time, my condition has not progressed nor worsened. I attribute this to my rigorous meditation practice, and by exercising utter restraint in the use and training of my powers.*
*I agree with Ulric: You should have come forward sooner, though it doesn't take a telepath to sense the shame that thought must have caused you. In your frenzied search for answers you may have been exacerbating your condition. If you like, I would be willing to offer instruction in the techniques that have kept my condition stable for the past century. Aside from that, please know that I have been following your research for some time: I am among those who await to congratulate you on your success.*
"While I appreciate the sentiment from you both, you must look at things from my point of view. There was little any of you could have done save provide me with pity, something I have very little use for." Andrew sounds bitter though resolved. "My research has shown that no two novas process taint the same way, it is as personal as our eruptions and our powers are. For you Cody, meditation and mental self control have no doubt helped because of the psychic nature of your abilities. For myself taint seems to accompany each shift of my personal evolution. As my power expanded so too did the taint within me, in its own way it all makes sense. The changes to my body have rendered me as though a man made up of nothign but stem cells, capable of shifting into whatever I desire, thus my feeding requirement. As I developed the ability to separate parts of myself they gained their own personality. Though detrimental the taint, for me at least, mirrors the growth of my power."
_________________________
That's right; one can make all kinds of explosives using simple household items... If one were so inclined. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ theplourde - Dr. Raphael Bradford - Callum Uallas
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