Hello.
I'm running a Teragen campaign. I would like at least one of my PC enter Chrysalis. BUT after three years, the most advanced character just has 1 permanent chrysalis point. He tried really hard, but getting those f*** points is not an easy thing: you must botch a power attempt, used in a way related to your Archetype, you must have enough QP... To me the most difficult thingis the botching part...
What do you think? Does someone share my concerns about this?

Chrysalis is supposed to come about the use and abuse of your powers, to gather chrysalis fast you "Need" to Max powers at least 3 times per day and be constantly recovering QP with the 'Fast Recovery' mechanic.

Yeah that's a shit ton, and Combat novas almost never get to max their powers without leveling a city block.

Realistically the rules for Chrysalis make it harder for you to ever get chrysalis points the more powerful you become, after a while and enough Mega-Stamina, it's virtually impossible to achieve them.

Sorry to hear you are having trouble, but if it's not working for you, why not rework it for your game?

I ran into the same problem in a game I'm running. I got around it by allowing people to accumulate points during downtime. They'd tell me what they were doing to accumulate points (Streaching their abilities to the limit in space, leveling a mountain in Peru) and I'd just let them roll.

I figure they know about Crysalis, they're getting information from other Nova's who've been through Chrysalis, it shouldn't be random sparce chance that leads to it: Its more like a destination they have to strech themselves to the limit to reach.

Valerie: Yes, I mean to change the rules but I don't want to make it too easy, and I surely don't want a non-taint related Chrysalis evolution. So I need some advice, and that's why I'm posting , looking for maybe a few suggestions.
Michael: I play that way too. My game is not really combat oriented, so my guys need that to evolve.

Assume that once per day a Terat Max's out off camera.

At Q1 he's going to botch 10% of the time.
At Q2 he's going to botch 11% of the time.
I don't remember what the other figures are off hand but they go down.

Basically this is something that adds up over a year or two, i.e. if you roll play out every max then it's not going to happen.

On a powermax, you don't need to roll your full die pool. You can choose to roll any number of die up to your quantum. This makes botching a roll easier. You could have a quantum of 5, but choose to roll 1 or 2 die for the powermax, because you are looking for the botch, and not successes.

And this is par for the course when it comes to the lamest and weakest shit that players pull. Intentionally trying to botch the roll is not keeping in tune with the Teras Archtypes. Common sense may dictate not having to blow your entire Quantum Score on the roll but the more you roll the more successes you may achieve and thus the more power you can taste when you max. It keeps the Terat going, like a junkie who needs a fix.

Maxxing a power roll for the sole intent of botching so you can accrue temporary taint it is weak and lame.

And think about it... for Divis Mal to have entered Chrysalis as many times as he did... the dude must be a complete and absolute failure.

Node Spark.


Nuff said.

What if the character doesnt want or is not in theme with Node Spark? Personally I once had an ST who gave out Chrysalis points every now and then like XP when he felt I had roleplayed my archetype particularly well or made a particularly impressive use of archetype related powers, maxing or no. Personally I feel that maxing is of limited usefulness and hardly ever do it. Likewise the Chrysalis system is badly in need of being reworked.

There are other reasons to not use the entire pool as a Terat. One of them is that you can't spare the extra np's to pay for the chrysalis. You therefore pull back on the powermax. You also don't want to level the city in powermaxing, so you also hold back on it. In holding back on the points used, you are creating a situation where you are not using you node efficiently. This will cause feedback from the channeling of the extra quantum.

That's why a Q-5 Nova is so much more powerful than a Q-1. The Q-5 nova is more resistant to taint from a powermax. The results are also to a greater effect than a Q-1.

For a Teras to force their node to work miracles with less juice is also keeping with the philosophy. Which is more of a challenge? Getting a desired result with 1 extra qp, or with 5 extra qp? Also, if you are in a fight, maxxing with 5 qp's might just mean that you will run out of juice and get your ass kicked.

Well, more likely it's just that Divis is really experimental and does difficult stuff when he maxes. After all, you tend to learn more when you fail than if you succeed. Remember, difficulties will also increase the botch rate (since if you don't get the requisite extra successes, it's counted as a failure), so try doing +2 and +3 difficulty maneuvers on your power max roll.

Assume you need 60 temp-Chrysalis, thus 60 botches to do this. Assume you do it at the rate that you regain willpower, i.e. one per day.

A botch rate of 10% means you need 600 power maxes, or less than 2 years. Ditto 11%.

I'm going to make the math easier on myself and assume that for Q5+ if you fail you also botch. That's not true but it's close.

Q5 7.8% 772 days
Q6 4.7% 1,286 days
Q7 2.8% 2,144 days
Q8 1.7% 3,572 days

All of them put together 21.3 years. Divis last big C was after he'd already pulled off N-Day so he had Q8 then and he'd been working on going in for close to 10 years.

Doesn't mean that its good for a game though. Who wantes to wait for 21 years of game time to tell their Chrysalis story? Not I. The system needs fixin', one way or another...

The system that worked in our TT game was to hand out temporary taint for every failed power roll not only for botches. For every botch you gained 1 temporary taint for ever '1' you rolled. Those players who designed themselves to be 'perfect' found it nearly imposible to gain Temp Taint (can't improve perfection, sorry bro, you're ass out) while those who made more interesting and 'flawed' characters quickly found the means to achieve a state of empowerment by encasing themselves in a slimy sac for a few months.

And of course they complained when I didn't time lapse it for them... and left them out of the game for months or years of game time. My bad.

It was a good system and it gave me the chance to get rid of those asshole characters who thought they could hit Mal like strength in a few months.

I also played a game where I took out Taint completely. Everyone thought it was the coolest fucking thing until they realized that with no Temp Taint there was no Pupa Power. God I loved that.

I say as a ST that anyone who wants to should enter Pupa as quick as possible, in fact the faster the better, that way while your PC is in a cocoon for 10 years that character can be written out of the game and we continue on without listening to the 'fix this ST cuz I need MOAR POWAH!" discussion.

Sad.

Sad that you take away a compelling part of the game. Take away Taint? I like my novas mutated thankyouverymuch.

You also just castrated the Teragen, taking away one of their more interesting facets (the whole point of archetypism and exploring a post human transition).

Not to mention punishing players for their dedication and roleplaying by taking them out of the game.

Why do you hate your players Rev?

Anyways, another option is to do it like MCoH. You can use Chrysalis as a plot device and part of your story, but you don't get any xp breaks. You just have to save up. The exception being that Chrysalis *does* allow you to spend xp to reduce your permanenet taint and convert mental aberrations. The plus side of this is that you aren't double stacking aberrations and social penalties. On the other other hand, those social penalties are a big part of what pushes the Teragen to war with humanity.

Different Strokes...

Oh, knock it the hell off. I've done all sorts of tweaks. Remove this, add that. Some games had Taint, others didn't.

It's not punishment, the game is going on with or without them. It's not mine, or any other players fault that they went into Chrysalis. I will not halt the on going progression of the other players to cater to one character.

Not happening.

Why you such a motherfucker?

Hey! lets not get nasty! That comment was tongue in cheek.

Then use a smiley.

Otherwise you look like an asshole.

I still like it.

The game needs a lot of tweaks, we all know that. But Pupa Power is one of those things that players use as more of a tool to buy power cheaply and rush to badassness as quickly as possible. That's not what it's for.

The math done above is pretty accurate, and yet it's not. Yes it should take time, a lot of time. But it caters to novas with pathetic dice pools. I've accrued 7 temp taint by the book in one game session with just a 4 dice power pool, while the elder novas who'd been mastering quantum for years couldn't fail if they tried.

White Wolf can't do math. We all know this. But it's not meant to be easy. That's why 5's in power, attributes, and abilities aren't dabbling, they're total mastery.

Some people couldn't bring themselves to fail if they tried, they're just too good. Sucks being a perfect being, trust me, I know.

If you're the ST and you think one of the players deserves Chrysalis by now then just hook him/her up with a few temporary taint during the game sessions to speed up the process a bit. You don't have to rewrite the rules. You make them, your the ST, if the player deserves a little taste of power you're well within your rights to give it to him/her.

ST's have that luxury ya know.

Bah! You kids today and your Chrysaliseseses...

In MY day we had Taint! And if you had 10 Taint you were OUTTA THE GAME. And WE LIKED IT! Then someone at White Wolf got a woody for the Teragen and decided to grant them teh Ultimat Pwourz...and suddenly everyone thinks they're -entitled- to it.

Bah! BAH!

*waves a shotgun from the rocking chair on his front porch*

-- The Curmudgeonly Salmon Max

IMHO not only is it not there for ultimate power, but it's not even point efficient.

Let's just say that you go pupa and buy that magic Q6, it cost you 20 experience and 5 months of time, and *at* *least* +1 Social Diff for baselines and *at* *least* two aberrations (chances are it should cost more).

It probably also cost you some actual taint since with all the Maxing they do Terats can't burn off temp taint (nor can they transform all of it).

If you do anything about your Taint (which is what it's there for) then you're going to be down for a lot longer than 5 months.

So... you're totally off line during your Pupa. So you're not earning experience. When you add up the amount of experience you could have earned, but didn't, to your taint and aberration increases (which is a one way street), it's simply IMHO not worth it.

If you want Q6 then build a low taint Q5 character and buy Q6 normally. It's less headache in the long run. For that matter even Q1 has a lot to offer. You spend your bonus points on willpower and effectively have more nova points, like +7.

Well I guess we aren't quite as lucky as you are

It's no cake walk, lemme tell ya.

Well, a least that proves I'm not the only one thinking that this whole Chrysalid system is a bit uneasy to handle with.
About Node Spark, I effectively noted a Terat with this power raised his chances more than a bit. Probably many terats would get this power very suited to their philosophy, but I can't just ask my players to buy a lvl 3 power only for Chrysalid purpose.
THIS is completely lame

I'm so proud right now...

*sniffles*

Good thinking. Keep in mind that the ST rule applies, f you think it's okay or appropriate to 'award' a point or so to be made into TC, then go for it.

As long as you don't go wonky with it, it should be cool.