You can't eliminate Taint from Aberrant and have it still be Aberrant. I know some players would rather it be gone, but the theme of becoming less and less human the more powerful you become is vital to the setting. Strip it away, and you're left with just another supers-system and another supers-setting. Even if you, yourself, never reach Quantum 5 and never push your power too far, watching those you know reach that point and begin to change should influence how you view yourself and your species.

I'd hate to see a revised Aberrant lose Taint simply because many players were dissatisfied with it as a mechanic. I'd lean more towards reworking Taint than cutting it.

I once toyed with a way to make temporary taint "Tasty". Each point bought you an extra success on any quantum roll up to your quantum score(even ones for Mega-Attributes). It can also be used for extra soak. It doesn't seem like a lot at first, but wait til you are in combat, or competeing with, another nova who is willing to push a little harder and win. Are you willing to push that hard? How badly do you want to win? After all, its only a little bit of taint.

You also get taint for raising your Quantum and buying things tainted.

I didn't find a good way to deal with Chrysalis though. Maybe doing nothing with it is fine, as Chrys is its own poison.

Reworking is what I had in mind. Statistically it's too difficult to earn taint as it is, there's only one way to actually do it (barring a few powers) so any nova who simply shys away from that technique and those powers can effectively remain 'Taintless' by only gaining it through a high Q-Score (granted 6 Taint is nothing to laugh at, but that only when you hit Q10).

To me that's not right. If taint is something to be feared, there should be more risks that involve it.

Well, one thing I never liked about the system was that Power Maxing took a turn. You could change that to optionally doing the Max the turn you declared it, but getting auto Temp-taint, instead of only if you botched...

Edit: Say maybe getting a point of temp taint for every die you rolled of your Quantum on the max attempt or something.

Hah... This is %^&* hill-ar-IOus

Never knew that cha could be so funny
It took me two mininutes to stop laughing... And based on my bad day, I really needed the pick me up

As to what I'd like to see fixed...

Off hand the "Flight power" (althought it cost some QP to use) is Still 100x's better than the 'Body Mod: wings/Patagia' power, and yet they cost the same in NP to by. The Body Mod is Very slow, can Never grow (short of mastery, which I've never heard of anyone trying to combine Masterys with), is a Big target vulnerability, and can easily pose some interesting social problems.

I'd wonder if a lower 'cost to buy' for this might not be prudent... Just a thought!


Another Body Mod issue is 'Extra Limbs'. I love the flexability of this mod over, say Palladium Books (Heroes Unlimited I'm looking at YOU) which totally Gimped that ability, BUT Aberrant/Abbi-Trin went the completely opposet direction by have ZERØ restrictions on just A)How Many you can have, and B) The utter lack of natural Limitation that would be posed by having a BODY full of arms!

I do Not want to see this power get Gimped (as This game is The ONLY game to not quash my creativity) but, I feel like they Also took away some of the challenges...

I'm mean, How can I come up with creative ways to break the games rules if, they simply won't give me any limitations with which to Break!

On another note, I DO like having a High QR, not so mcuh for the Mastery But rather for the higher Dice rolls I can get for MAXXING!

TO THE MAX: I really do luv maxxing for game effects as Nothing beats crying out your "Special Moves" or getting up your "Rage" for campy Prowreastling moves, or that DBZ (you've just killed my dog Mr. Smoochy... Now Im Really Mad!) game moments. Additionally I also like the fact that you can gain 1 XP (or PXP-Personal Experiance Point) for a power that you've max on), Once per session, which can be applied to Just That Powers future growth.

This to me really does go to the whole heart of "Pushing yourself to grow in a power" theme of the books, and Maxing can offer you so much more like; Temp one shot Extras/Stunt, Increases in range and duration, that little extra Umpff of Die rolling strength that you need at the last miniute... ETC.


I'd hope you guys never end-up gimping that die pool.

TAINT:
I know that sometime back I brought up to you guys how hard it was to gain Taint from various powers, Maxing, and pushing yourself to regain Q-Pool back faster, but I'd hope that this isn't taken to mean that TAINT will get shafted by giving too many more downsides to it, or Juxtaposed by a total Ix-nay of TAINT from the game.


As to taint, just make it "A Little bit easier" to get... You Do Not need much, just a little bit more push is what is needed. As is, the Game makers wanted it to be hard to gain it in the first place, that way it would take Many Many Years (10-20 yrs. ave) before people realized Just how bad it could get. This was done so that the problem wouldn't be so Very obvious to the Novas & Baseline Public at first... Not untill things Really started to get Bad.


As Taint goes in the game, Just having It can give you some Nasty side effects outside of the social penaltys & Aberrations normaly associated with Taint/QBD. For instance, Some Mental resistance are weakened by Any amount of taint.

Additionally you gain Temporary aberration (which should and DO get be very bad as your Per Taint increases) everytime you get even a small amount of temporary taint in one sitting (3+ Temp Taint) which lasts for 15-[Sta+any Mega-Sta] days.


Suggestable Changes to Taint:
•Novas/players Gain 1 Aberration per each point temp taint gained during a sitting, Lasting [15 Times Permanent taint] days [Divided by STA].

•Gaining Taint. Negative side effects from gaining excessive Permanent Taint over 3 should stay as is, However, Negatives from the the total Taint Score itself should move to encompass <Weakening All Willpower related rolls and Psi-resistances>
This must come to include Mental Flaws purchased at Character creation, or conversely later on in the game. Now Taint may be seen as having a Truer Game Mechanically related deleterious effect.


•Increase the Amount of taint gained during Maxing manuvers.
On a succesful Max Roll and usage of the attached power (that is being increased by the Max), have the player make a Willpower save at 1 difficulty for every 1 rolled on such Maxings. Total max Taint should Never be Higher than 1.
Botches should be handeled as standard by the book.

•Maxing:
As it is in the books it is better to use a Max for everything else OTHER THAN for increasing you temp die pools (like for damage. Range, Extras, duartion-etc, are all much better off than a pathetic +1 to your Die Pool.
Suggestion: For every success spent in this way, Double the amount of Maxing Bonuse Die given to a powers Die pool starting with the first die.
Successes-
1=2
2=4
3=8
Etc...
Since 3 is the average rolled on maxes for Quantum Ratings 5-7, any Higher successes for higher Q-Rating would be Well within line of the games system (as by QR 8 Plus, your are a god!, this Also stays inline with the Doubling effects given for increasing Range and Duration via Maxing.


•Maxing Soak:
Considered by the books to be "A last ditch survival mode shared by All novas, even those with out any special form of power granting soak", it is the Only effect of Maxing which should take effect right away, as armoring/soak is a Defensive effect, and in most games system, tie goes to the defender anyhow. Without this modification, ANY such soak value increase should be veiwed as Pointless since you'll likely end up taking said damage before the soak bonuse has time to take effect.

I also like to say that I agree with Noah in regards to Body Morph. Far far to often here I hear people say that you should just "Create a new power", but when someone does, they get hammered for "Not using pre-existing powers in the book" or some such oddity. Or maybe a poster comes up with any idea for a power variant because the do not wish to go another rout. Even when they start out being forth-coming with their reasons for doing it this way, other will go ahead and outright ignore those 'dislikes' and suggestthem anyways.

Example:
Poster A) I want to create a body morph that truns me into a werewolf. I do Not wish to use w/s (weakness and strengths) as I do not like them... That is why i'm going this rout.

Poster B, C, D, AND E) Well we don't feel like that meshes with our idea of the power (even though a read of the powers Fluff text says that it Does)... How about you use some Weaknesses and Strength on this (pick a generic power) to get a similar effect...

Poster A) is now confused as w/s was specifically mentioned as a No No...

And Yet...


This is exactly what just happened. Why the nitpicking over "Which name should we call it". Body morph is Clearly the correct place for a furry/wereform trick. Yes could go other routs but Why bother if you've got to modify the crud out of them and, your Still Not getting the intended effect!



Here's another one.
I once came across an arguement over weither or not a power one poster came up with (some kind of spider webbing power) should be called an Elenemtal mastery because it had Some techniques in it. The creator of the power couldn't understand WHY this needed to be the case, that he couldn't (in their minds) simply keep the name that he'd given it. Their reasoning was that "It had Techniques, and there for any power that had them is automaticaly (and Should automatically) be classed as an Elemental Anims/Mastery power...

That was It! That was all the other two posters were arguing about! Really, I kid you not! All that arguing over a Name... Needless to say that the creater of the power was a bit confused over all of the agnst.


Personally i'd noticed quite a few powers in the book(s) which had Techniques but that weren't classed as Elemental Anima or Mastery powers. Gravity Manipulation, Magnetic Mastery, Spacial Manipulation, Bio-Manipulation, Molecular manipulation... Etc.

It all seemed to me to be a bunch of the boards local "Professionals on Everything" just trying (needlessly) to give argument to everything and anything so as to fill a pointlessness.Still, it bring up a good point in that often someone here comes up with a logical and reasonable usage of a power (one that is in line with and would Totaly be okayed by the books creators) but that it gets shot down over a trite issue like "What catagory" it should be listed under.


Now discussions and arguments ARE how we all learn here, but some of this crazyness seems based on some bizzare mind set of people, one that I'd HOPE would Never make it into any future Game Books.

None of this is intended to insult anyone, it's rather just intended to pointout that some disscussions over small issues like (The body morph werewolf hat trick) should ever even come up as an issue. The books outright have a Solid State that is listed as being made out of Circuit boards... So it's safe to assume that (since the text TOLD YOU to get creative, and that the listed from Here are Only benchmark ideas and Should not be taken to be the endall and be all of options) the wolfman jack idea is a Wounderful consept.



Kudoes Noah
I say lets all Encourage this type of thinking as IT is what we need the most of here in this discussion.

What I would have loved would for WW to have stated flat-out without any wussiness that the game Aberrant was not mean to be Storyteller Champions. The system as presented is NOT designed to allow a player to be anything and everything they might want to be from all supers archetypes. The initial presentation of tech flat out makes Iron Man impossible and Batman even more so.

Aberrant the canon setting isn't home to mutants, magic, tech freaks, science misfits etc etc. It's home to Novas. And for those desperate few who can't stand not being super, super special, Psions. The powers presented show what Novas can do. Use those powers.

The nature of the way your beam fucks a body up doesn't make you unique, the CHARACTER you create makes you unique.

It would have save a shitload of hassle for people who WANT to play magic creatures, ironmen and such if WW had written what they obviously intended instead of pussing out and trying to have their cake and eat it too.

The problem is that folks seem to not get that taint is supposed to be a BAD thing if you want to play someone who is human at heart and mind. That's how it's presented but unfortunatley there is a tendency to simply look at it as a way to have a custom look for the character.

IMHO the body mod is a specialty for only a few character builds... but some of those would be 3rd gen freaks and other non-novas.

Yeah, agreed. IMHO you should just be able to buy "Bodymod: Blue Skin" or even "Bodymod: Custom Look".

HOLY CR@P!!!
Courier dude, sorry! I just looked at that last post of mine and the way I wrote it sound like a %^&*. Maybe yawl should just glaze yer eyes over it... It's an awful bit condensending of a read... I'd hate to turn the thread into rant session of myn.

Sorry everyone.

'Wow' it's Freak how yah always say what I'm thinking.
I like that yer both on the same page about this! Buying Tainted powers Is 'Supposed to be' a reason to roll-play, as the whole idea of someone desiring More power and later (or sooner) sufering major alienation from it. The fact that it is soooo desireable to want lotsa power but cheap, is that Beautiful mistake that lead to the your pariahship.

WAY to many players of mine enjoyed the whole consept and Hated players that tried to RP the Actual desire to stay human in the ever changing worlds of their Own bodies.


THAT IS ABERRANT!

Nows where I get to ask a question of yawl.

Healing

Level: 3
Quantum Minimum: 3 (in between 2 and 4)
Dice Pool: Wits + Healing
Range: Touch
Duration: Instant
Description: This power allows for the healing of others and ones own wounds
Multiple Actions: Yes, but at +2 difficulty to do so.
Effect: The nova spends the required [3] quantum points and heals [Wits+PR] Health levels in Bashing damage, or Half that in Lethal damage health levels. All damage is healed over a time period equal to [PR- 10] turns and may only be performed as often as once every [10 miniutes/ Quantum Rating] per individual.
Aggravated damage may be healed as well but takes three times the successes and three times longer to perform with of healing aggrivated damage Only being able to be performed as often as once per scene. Additionally to the above text, Lethal damage can not be healed untill one has acheived their second dot in this power, same goes for Aggrivated damage which requires a minimum of three dots in the power to perform. A successful power maxing role may apply 1 success to add one effective level to the power for the purpose of allowing for Lethal damage to be healed, and a second success to further heal Aggrivated damage.

EXTRAS as per normal.


Now this is taking everyones ideas, conserns, and wishes and smushing them all into one. The way the power works NOW, it takes into count a random rolled number of successes with an automatic QP loss whether or not any actual healing takes place, but its Also means that you may end up saving more energy as you grow in power. Having the automatic QP cost preset Also means getting to take the guess work outta howmuch your gonna spend (a good and bad thing), but mostly this means that both, the "Reduced cost" and "Mastery" Extras would require a hefty toll in increased levels to the power... Meaning that it will be Much harder to pull off a costless Healing, even with tricky usages of W/S, yet Still leaves the potential open to you.


The decreased down time between healings on the same individual(s) is because this power Simply doesn't need it, AND this makes the power Much more efficiant than Bio-Manipulations Healing effect. Conversely I added a Healing Rate so as to show that the power shouldn't be so quick.

This version of healing Also gives you Much More reason to buuy more dots in the power rating. Still I too would like to see this power turned into a suite power with the actual regeneration effect being more of an option, and Cure, Inflict, and Other possable Techniques' being developed.




THIS version of Healing needs a critique' so as to improve on it.

The first thing I see wrong with it is that you tried to please everyone.

Awww yes, but That's what made the challenge fun. But honestly I myself had alot of those same concerns, so it just worked out that others ended up bring out some more good points to think on. If I hadn't looked further into this discussion, I'dv never realzed how the power worked/didn't work.

As to the issue with cost, most of us out here just cut the Final cost to heal in half (when using the Reduced Cost Extra). If the person only healed One H-Level, it costed Him/her/it nothing and this was fine to us even if the player thought it was a cheap way to save Q-Pool as, it would be a whole scene till the Next time that they could heal a wound. Under though circumstances it could take an hour to heal 3HL, and NO way is it costless to heal Lethal (1Pool) or Agg [2Pool]damage.
We just considered it that the players nova was "Taking it slowly" and Not trying to Abuse their Quantum Conscience.




As to Bio-Manipulation, given that it's a Q6 power, do you guys really feel it should be bumped upto a level 4 power as well? No really, that an honest question in which I'm wondering if I myself should go that rout as it Is awful darn powerful, so it Should cost a lil more to buy and level.



Lastly
What I'd change:
I'd A) add a weight limit to Molecular Manipulations Main power,
and I B) agree that going from Elemental Anima to Mastery should happen automatically (or at most with a small ancillary cost attatched, like an extra).
And C) Under Weakness and Strengths I'd make it much clearer to everyone that Linked Powers and Dependant Powers are NOT the same. Thanks to not separating the paragraphs well enough, it's caused everyone I know to think that they are one in the same, even though they do work differantly. As such, many a play has abused this w/o intent, so as to drop a power down a level. The maximum that Linked powers can grant you is 4 weakness points and the maximum the Dependant Power weakness can grant you is 2 weakness points.


As to the cost of gaining a NONE level increasing extra (which generally happens when one reaches a higher Q-Rating) the cost is equal to the powers current Level.
Example: To by an extra for Quantum Bolt at Q6 would cost 2 EP because it is a level 2 power... This is assuming it's does Not have any extras or had it's level artifically altered in any way. It does not matter 'How many' dots you have in the power, the cost is always the same. At Q6 the Next extra would have a Normal cost associated with it.

I'm still taking feedback on this thread people, don't be shy.

Let's talk about... Merits and Flaws...

The best? The Worst? Useless? Too powerful? Not powerful enough? What would you like to see?

Oooh, where to begin...

Well, Short needs to be expanded on. Let's face it, being less than 1.5 meters in height can present more challenges that equipment use and running speed.

Unless you're built like a fantasy dwarf, you're lighter, have overall less body muscle mass, etc etc. I'd make a 3 pt flaw, call it 'Small' and include melee/brawl penalties for certain actions. Sure, a good midget will wipe the floor with an average dude still, but put two people of equal training, drive and talent in the ring together and you'll see the myth of "the little guy wins" explode.

So there'd be two size related flaws. Short for the Wolverines of the world, and Small for the Warwick Davis's.

This isn't contributing to the thread, but I just wanted to say:

"Sure, a good midget will wipe the floor with an average dude..."

That is a candidate for a sig, right there.

Agreed, I've always felt that too.



So like, 'short' and 'dwarf'?

Actually the official errata modified this to be your mega autosuz as damage dice rather than mega str dots in dice.

Also, I personally love the idea of the all purpose bodymorpgh being able to be used for things like animorphs and such. Titan Omega had this and it worked surpisingly well. It also nicely avoids the shapeshifting issues you mentioned and fits the "define your power" concept that many forget. But I have little power in ST land and I know I have a more permissive ciew of the rules than others here so I won;t get into an argument. Just letting you know that many STs are okay with doing what you suggest and as always its up to the individual ST to make a ruling. IMHO if it doesnt break the game they usually are cool with it.

and the picture showing Buendia and his mutant hair....

So... out of this list... which are keepers? Some might already be in print in Aberrant, I just didn't feel like deleting duplicates.

Psychological Merits:
Code of Honor (1)
Dual-Nature (2)
Gall (2)
Loyalty (1)

Mental Abilities-Merits
Clear Sighted (3)
Common Sense (1) Shae thinks not!
Concentration (1)
Eidetic Memory (2)
Iron Will (5)
Lightning Calculator (1)
Self-Confident (5)
Time Sense (1)

Awareness Merits
Acute Senses (1)
Nightsight (3)

Aptitudes-Merits
Ability Aptitude (1)
Animal Magnetism (1)
Ambidextrous (2)
Crack Driver (1)
Culture Knack (3)
Daredevil (3)
Graceful (2)
Extremely Skilled
Natural Linguist (2)
Well-Traveled (3)

Supernatural Merits
Charmed Existence (5)
Danger Sense (3)
Green Thumb (1)
Guardian Angel (6)
Honeyed Tongue (2)
Luck (3) (most):
Soothing Voice (2)
True Love (1)
Twin Link (4-6)
Unaging (2)

Social Merit
Child (1-3)
Good Old Boy/Girl (2)
Innocent (2) (Sylvan anyone?)
Pitiable (1)

Prestigious Merits
Corporate CEO (5) (Wealth beyond avarice?)
Hideaway (2)
Local Ties (1-3)
Mansion (2/3) (Look, you actually have all shit you claim you do!)
Nightclub (2) (Look! You really do have a night club!)
Occult Library (2)

Physical Merits
Catlike Balance (2)
Double-Jointed (1)
Huge Size (4)
Light Sleeper (1)
Longevity (2)
Poison Resistance (2)

Psychological Flaws:
Black and White (1)
Compulsion (1)
Tactless (1-2) (Revenant...)
Curiosity (2)
Dark Secret (1)
Deranged (3)
Driving Goal (3)
Flashbacks (3)
Hatred (3)
Hero Worship (1)
Inferiority Complex (1)
Intolerance (1)
Lifesaver (3)
Low Self-Image (2)
Masochist/Sadist (1)
Nightmares (1)
Pacifist (5)
Phobia (1 or 3)
Sensation Junkie (2)
Shy (1)
Soft-hearted (1)
Territorial (2)
Ulterior Motive (2)
Vengeance (1)

Mental Abilities-Flaws
Absent-Minded (3)
Amnesia (2)
Confused (2)
Overconfident (1)
Weak-Willed (2)

Awareness Flaws:
Bad Sight (2)
Blind (6)
Color Blind (1)
Deaf (4)
Hard of Hearing (1)
One Eye (2)

Aptitudes-Flaws
Ability Deficit (5)
Graceless (2) (Contessa...)
Illiterate (1)
Speech Impediment (1)

Supernatural Flaws
Cursed (1-5)
Dark Fate (5)
Offensive to Animals (1)
Otherworldly Taint (2)
Taint of Corruption (4)

Social Flaws
Airhead (1)
Craven Image (1)
Disturbing Mannerism (2)
Enemy (1-5)
Isolated Upbringing (1)
Mistaken Identity (1)
Mistreated Minority (1)

Prestigious Flaws
Persistent Parents (2)
Ward (3)

Physical Flaws
Addiction (1-3)
Allergic (1-3)
Aging (3)
Deep Sleeper (1)
Deformity (3)
Diminished Attributes
Disfigured (2)
Lame (3)
Monstrous (3)
Mute (4)
One Arm (3)
Paraplegic (6)
Permanent Wound (3)
Short (1)
Sterile (1) (Some novas actually are ya know...)
Slow Healing (3)

Common sense doesn't seem like it should be a merit. Something prayed for in players but not requiring points to be spent for characters.

Personally, I like having the merit list available for story/character ideas, but as an ST I'm usually pretty picking on what people actually do with them. I've had a lot of ST's that let characters take flaws for extra creation points and then basically ignore them throughout the game. On that note, I'd say that if someone wants to be short or color blind or have a dark secret or amnesia or a code of honor etc. then go for it but it's not gonna net you min/maxing points.

They're great for flavor and suck for the abuse they're usually used for.

I've altered the shapeshifting power to include individuals who want to create characters that are 'one trick' shapeshifters. Like the werewolf guys and the dragon guys.

Basically by 'specializing' in one paricular form you are granted bonus powers or successes as you increase dots in that power. So while you may not be able to become a brick wall or a fly or a cheetah, you will become a werewolf that is easily more powerful than a shapeshifter of equal power as you simply because you chose to select a single form while Johnny Everything can do it all.

The plus side is that you will be significantly more powerful (and pay less to activate and sustain the power) than a generalist. The negative side will be that you will not have as many options as the generalist and may find yourself outwitted.

QFT

I feel your pain, I've sat in groups like that too and also had players pissed at me because I called them out on their flaws.

I agree, as an ST I try to use people's flaws against them in the story, but all to often they are forgotten. (out of sight/out of mind) I prefer that people just RP them rather than build them into their characters for point benefits.

I'm game testing some Merits and Flaws (as well as Power Strength and Weaknesses).

We all know the problems with over and under balance assosiated with them and this game I'm in has been all about seeing what does and doesn't fly... Like right now I'm outta QP and dispite (what I call Massive amounts of) min/maxing, I'm still a Frack of allot weaker than many other novas...

Fix 1 for Str & Weaknesses I've found... Double them all! Yes double the point value foreverything BUT Range and Duration, then Double the value of reducing a level from 5 to 10. The biggest flaw to the STR & WK points system has been that is just so freaking easy to reduce levels by simly reducing Range or Duration a little bit, but to affect change in other areas you seem to see allot less gainfulness.

Another BIG point to this system is that no mention is made that when you Increase a level due to Extras, the QP cost of the power does Not increase (as per the new errta found in Players Guide that countered the Original Mainbook ruling), However when you REDUCE a level via Weakness rules, EVERYTHING including the QP cost is reduced as well!

If the QP cost does not change for an increase in level, then Neither should it Decrease for for a reduction. It's not that a power gamer like me Wants to get gimped but, even I know an abusible cheat when I see it.

EXAMPLE-In my game I've paid 5NP for Five Dots in Molecular Manipulation!!! All I did was reduce range by -9 and duration by -4 and NP Cost, QP, and Future EXP cost are all reduced to a level one power...

Was I cheating technically no, Morally yes (even IF this power was excepted by the ST as pay back for 15 years of everyone boning me by stiking me with GM duty and never Once RPing me like they promiced they would) in other words he let me do this as pay-back and a way to finally let me have some fun fer once-even If the game is all about 'game testing'... It's still a game.



The problem with Merist, Flaws & Bonuse Points is that you are that they incline you to WANT to spend them on buying extra Quantum Rating (QR). Not the worst thing since most of Us here are more about the RPing of a game than the cheat factor, but Even 'I' am inclined to wanna do this from time to time.

Can't think of a fix fer this but... I'm sure a simple one exists. Look, I'm not saying or wanting the game to get gimped any since that will just end up hurting the players that are Not abusing the system, but I've ST'ed a game where the players tried all too hard to abuse the game and it was a horrible game time. It was also the last game I ST'ed because of this I stopped GMing 5 years ago.

Well, I've considered this a bit, and I think there should be Theme discounts for NP expendature, at least intially, for players who stay within the theme.

Say, for example, I say I want to play a Master of Flames (as per the Human Torch). I pay a lower NP discount for the following powers - Absorbtion(Energy - Fire Only), Body Morph: Flame, Elemental Mastery (Fire), Elemental Anima (Fire), Quantum Bolt (Fire), & Invulerability(Fire), reducing thier NP cost down a level. Perhaps also Mega-Dexterity, and Mega-Wits (Cause fire is fast and quick), reducing the cost by 1. Then pay regular costs for out of Theme powers, should I ever run an abberant game, I think I'll use this.

The entire Strength and Weakness system needs to go. The whole idea of 'take one from here, add one here' etc, was just poorly planned and it permits gamers (like yourself) to completely abuse the system. I can't claim innocence, I've done it myself. Sometimes just to see if I could and other times with a serious character.

S/W's need to be more focused on the powers themselves and not focused around the stats of the power. Sure, increased range, duration, etc, are the staple increased or decreases and should be in there but there is no mention anywhere about improving the core power itself. A strength that lets you amplify how your PC uses fire, not just it's range or how long it lasts for example.


A power costs it's level to activate, so a level 4 power costs 4qp to activate, that's always been the case. The only exception to this is, of course, the Reduced Quantum Cost' extra.

Even if you raise or lower the power with an extra it still costs it's level in QP to activate, unless there is some rule I've missed somewhere.


This is one change I've made to the character creation process. Nova's go through two steps during creation (per core rules), the Baseline Stage and the Nova Stage. The problem is that Bonus Points are spent during the Baseline Stage, not the Nova Stage (you can verify this in the character creation chart on page 120).

Here's the problem... Baselines do not have a Quantum Trait. Adding the (1) to the PCs quantum score should not happen until you start the nova phase. Basically, how can you spend Bonus Points to raise a trait that you do not even possess?

Now I know why it's there. In all WW games there is some some defining trait (Blood Potency, , Essence, Gnosis, Rage, Quantum, Psi, the list goes on) that as you increase it you are capable of more powerful things or are just a more bad ass. The trait always costs x8 or something to that effect.

You can not purchase Mega-Atts, Powers, Enhancements... basically nothing that relies on your quantum score, but you can buy quantum itself? The core defining trait that is harder to master than the abilities and powers themselves? It just never made sense to me and most others I've gamed with.

Does it unbalance the game? Nope. Does make for weaker novas? Slightly.


I agree with this, but the themes themselves are incredibly extensive and would likely require a chapter all themselves. Also there is the issue of people trying to discount their 'theme' when really it's just a selection of power they want o have and not wanna pay for. "My Forcefield looks like fire, that counts!"

It's something to consider, and an excellent idea, but I think it's something that's best used on a case by case basis instead of a hard rule.

As an aside, I don't think mega-attributes should ever be included in a package or theme, but even I've allowed it in the past so I'd be sort of a hypocrite in that regard.

Good suggestions, keep em coming. I'm hoping to have some of the powers ready for review soon. I have to work up the chapter and proof read the few pages that come before the power explanations that explain the descriptors and what all the stuff means. Nothing is really overly complicated, it's just more spelled out now so people can understand it better.

A few changes...

• Almost all 'permanent' powers requires the nova to have at least 1 quantum point in their pool to keep them active. With no juice there is nothing to keep these powers functioning. Even the most hard core nova can be brought down if they're tired out. This encourages players to be smarter with their pools and make use of 'dying for power' or 'eufiber' more frequently.
• Armor is no longer permanent, it's activated and has a visible effect. It can be made permanent with an extra.
• There is a Mental Soak stat (Stamina governs physical soak, Wits governs mental soak). Powers that inflict harm or provide a soak against mental damage will use this trait. Powers defend against non-damaging attacks will provide bonus dice to the Willpower roll to resist the power. Hopefully this will balance some of the issues with Willpower vs. Mega-Mental/Social PCs who can either never win, or never lose an opposed roll. It should also curb some confusion of players who use incredibly obscene soak totals to resist or negate mental attacks despite the soak not justifying it. ("My Forcefield protects me from mental blasts... it just says 'bashing soak' and my 'bashing' soak is 72B").
• Quantum Minimum was removed. The quantum trait is used to determine how much power you character actually has. This effects how long powers last, how far they reach, etc... The main reason for this was that in the Aberrant book the powers did not make sense in terms of why X power could produce X effect but you need a Quantum score four points higher to produce an identical effect in a different power. Level 4+ powers have not been taken into consideration yet... I'm just one guy.

There are more, but those are some highlights... it's time for bed for me...

I love the mental soak rules change. Social/mental characters can be either royally screwed or completely overpowered in the current rules set of Aberrant depending on how the current ST wants to rule on the rather ambiguous rules regarding their powers. The Quartet in 200X is a perfect example of a need for clearly defined rules/resistances to mental and social powers, both in what they can actually do and in how others are expected to react.

I'm still dealing with a few balance issues with Mental Soak (auto-sux vs. extra dice, etc.) but so far it looks pretty good. Granted it is one more stat to calculate (which some might not like) but I'd rather spend an extra 4-5 minutes jotting down a few extra numbers than remain clueless.

A lot of these changes are highly inspired by (of all things) d20 Aberrant, Scion, and the oWoD books (which had some awesome social Merits and Flaws).

Rev baselines don;t have a quantum score per se, BUT Baslines who are latent have lesser or greater degrees of latency...I always figured spending bonus points on Quantum in baseline phase just meant starting with a higher latency rating and less of other bonus point things, like willpower.

also if armor is activated then it is functionally the same as the force field and we don't need two seperate powers for that. You jst have to define it as one or the other the same way you would define a quantum bolt or claws as something.

edit: and afaik, soak *never* applies to mental blasts....the only way you "soak" it is by reducing the net successes with your resistance (willpower) roll and through psychic shiled which adds successes to the roll AND subtracts damage from whatever gets through *that*...

Simply put, Armor is 'worn'. Forcefield is a barrier. Even if you sheathe yourself in your forcefield power it is still a barrier. Some of the revised enhancements will permit mega strong characters to smash through barriers (even forcefields), completely shattering the field and the powers duration in the same way they might punch through a wall.

Armor in this case is not considered a barrier, which makes having the armor power a bit of a boon when you square off against a Goliath, even if your armor power looks like a forcefield surrounding you.


Mental Invul and Psychic Shield both grant you a soak score bonus, but like most things in aberrant the rules are unclear as to how a mental or physical soak work.

It needed to be corrected.

the thing thatr sucks about armor being an activation power is that it does not allow for novas who are always bricks; characters like Rhino or Juggernaut for example. Some novas sure, like Collossus make sense but what if you are tainted out like the Thing? Since when does he have to activate his rocky hide?

Now you may say that novas aren't marvel characters and that's true but IMHO players should be able to use the rules to create whatever type of character they can imagine, not just whatever Dave thinks is permissble...

Re: "mental soak"
I dunno if you had players arguing soak about mental blasts with you they were jerking you around. The rules are clear that you simply take whatever damage gets through your resistance roll...

Sky - If you want a character like The Thing in the system Rev is proposing, you can still make them: all you have to do is buy Permanency as an extra instead of getting it automatically like you do in the standard Aberrant rules atm.

And the mental soak issue is that the rules can be argued because they are vague and ill-fitting in many circumstances.

Maybe you missed the part about it being able to become a permanent power? I scaled the power a bit, the Marvels you mentioned have Invulnerability, not Armor.

Also I'm not sure if that last was a shot or not but I never said people had to do it my way. The point of this thread is so I can get feedback from people and use their ideas and opinions constructively. Will I use them all? Probably not. Do people have to do it my way? Most certainly not.

I've not even completed the powers section yet so people haven't really even had the opportunity to see what changes I've made and discuss what's good or what's bad. Now I understand that in your opinion you should be able to make any character you want and from what I can tell, thus far, I haven't limited anyone's creativity. People do not have to use my ideas. My goal is to enhance the system and offer players a means by which they can expand on their creativity.

I'm hoping that by the time I finish this players will have several new ideas to make use of at their tables or here on the forums. Like any other system we'll pick out what we like and discard the rest. That's what Dave thinks is permissible.

er, yeah I missed the part about permanency. I still think of that as an aberration, which makes it hard in default system to mak certain concpets without going taint monkey, using the flaws system, getting railed at by the ST and other players or all of the above. Interestingly the APG description of permanent power actually suggests that powers for which it would be advantageous actually *should* be able to buy it as an extra.

Bloody tyrant! We shall never submit to your evil jackboot game-fascism!




Seriously, though, the more I read the more I'm interested in seeing the finished product. Good work, Dave, and it IS appreciated.

On a practical note, I like the Merits and Flaws list, and agree with the Common Sense one being taken out.

Sky - if that's the reaction you get to a concept, then it's probably not one you should play. If you think that's going to be the reaction to a concept, then you probably don't want to play it in a group setting.

Oh - Rev, I don't know if you've looked at it already, but the Merits and Flaws listed in the oWoD Hunter's Players Guide is a phenomenal list! Lots of great advantages and disadvantages for much more down to Earth game.

Hmm, you know I have the Hunter's PG and I didn't even think to look in it. In fact it's the one oWoD I skipped over...

Thanks Shae, I'll take a look. I don't plan on using all that appears on the list above, I'm trying to, through trial and error, find the ones that best associate with the Aberrant game world. Things like the property Merits and the Black Market ties stuff are good choices but some of the physical aptitude ones might not make the cut unless it's for the benefit of baselines so they have some chance to compete against a nova. We'll see.

A lot of the merits there are things like "Pillar of the Community" and "Close Family (actually a flaw)", just tons of 'hey, remember that you had a life before becoming a supernatural hunter of things that go bump in the night?' merits and flaws for the ST to mess around with you on.

I think it even has one that's like 'good credit'.

re: m&f...

common sense I believe was made as something to give to players new to rp, so the ST can give them hints if they are about to make an ignorent gaffe.


oWoD is great...they have merits like "nightclub owner" or "church ties".

Bard's Tongue is always fun when playing teeps or precogs.

oh! And you left out Black Thumb, the natural opposite of Green Thumb and both are fantastic if you want to run Aberrant: Fern Gully.

Actually you are right on the money Sky, that's exactly what it was put in there for.

To be honest though, I usually help the newer and the veterans out a little bit anyways, so it's like all my players already get the merit. That's one of the reasons I agreed to nix it.

I like the Merits/Flaws list. It looks well done.

Heh
Yeah, this is still my first time power gaming... Well, min/maxing that is since all those weaknesses are starting to limit me a bit, but I just figured I could do it this once since all I've ever done is tell people to"cut loose" and I always end up playing super prudish, I just didn't wanna sound like I'd never done it myself after having always made the suggestion to others to go for it.

That said, I'm not having all That much fun, as I figured would happen, by cheating (IE: being game legal in a creative manor) since I'm used ta doing everything the hard way. So far all I've done is intentionally whipe my QPool down to nothing leaving me not much better than a baseline, and Now the fun is there.

Really I just wanted to play ABBY a little lose before someone goes out and makes an "official" rewrite of the game and gimps it into non-existance due to their bad memmories of bad players. I just like the game fer the most part (99%) because I never cheated, min-max'ed, power gamed, or munchkined it... But I know why it Has to chamge and why You guys hate it as is and I can completely sympathize with you.


For me, It looks like I'm already back to GMing games fer others... And it's Rifts no less (Noooooooo, Not Rifts, anyTing but Rifts ). I think since everyone here is moving on from Aberrant, and abby was my main reason for coming here I can finally feel to move on.


Good luck with your system reboot Dave, it looks very well thoought out.

Hey spea for yourself buddy! I'm not moving on! For all the gripes there is still a reason why this board has been playing aberrant for a decade...for all its problems it's an awesome game! And Dave's rewrite here is just his own project...doesn;t mean everyone is going to switch to it when its done...

Really, now? Considering that you're the only one who keeps talking about "Dave's project" like it's some pesudo-canon re-write, I think maybe you might want to take a step back. No one, including Dave himself, has said he expects anyone to do anything with his suggestions. (In fact, I'm pretty sure he's already contradicted that particular assertion.) If you don't want to use something someone suggests, don't. It's that simple. Stop acting like people are going to try to force you to conform to some tyrannical, fascist brand of revisionist gaming.

Simmer down V! If you go back and carefully reread my above post and then yours, you will see that we are actually in agreement.

Somebody had a little too much coffee this morning?

And if you were being overly defensive towards El and not me, then nevermind, but you didn't quote or specify.