::Sigh:: No, that is not what I’m saying. Just to make things clear, I don’t feel sorry for myself. Life is good, even with my limitations I’m better off now than I was before I erupted.

But I know where the bulk of my potential is even if I choose to develop something else. The point I’m making is other people may be surprised, unpleasantly, by what “evolution” has in mind for them. Imagine me “exploring my quantum potential” or “developing my q-gifts” without consideration for the consequences.

Life isn’t an art class. All potentials should not be explored. Aberrations are not inherently “good”. Evolution is not inherently good.

But thats the funny thing about potential Doctor; it isn't an all or nothing thing. So you don't want to explore the "Hulk Smash" side of your eruption. Okay then, don't. What about the other abilities you got? If I remember correctly, you developed a measure of enhanced intelligence. Is developing that not also a path of potential?

As a quantum mimic, the Docs here in the Project have been teaching me a lot about Quantum expressions, how they manifest and how to recognize/understand them and I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that most Novas have no real idea what they do or what they are capable of. If Teras teaches this level of self awareness than can it really be all that bad?

Allow me to reiterate.

Theorize all you want, talk about it all you want. Direct experience is required for understanding. Hence the fact that Teras is only taught to Terats and that the Teragen is the only organisation to generate Teras.

Yes I know the above is full of paradoxical whasnames, never mind, you's all big boys and girls, you'll get over it.

Universe is big enough to comfortably contain all that the Baseline would consider paradox.

Flaw in Preston's declaration: that you murder your human self.

Deceive yourself all you wish, you are not human. No matter how much you claim to be, how much you live among them, how much you care for them, how much they love you or vice versa, you are NOT human. There is nothing "human" in you to murder.

Claiming be raised as human does not change this, claiming believing yourself to be human prior to your eruption changes nothing as well.

Novas are not human. Assuming otherwise is an insult to both our species and to theirs.

Note: this is not the same quality as the moral terms "humane" or "inhumane."

**ahem**

[size:15]BULLSHIT[/color]

You're potential is everywhere and everything you stick-in-the-mud monkey-see-monkey-do motherfucker.

So, my potential was simply making like a frigidaire and everything I've done outside of that is NOT my potential? Again for y'all in the cheapseats, bullshit. Our potential is everthing. You want to do it? You can. Why? Cuz you're a nova, hommes. If it ain't easy that's because you still got your mind wrapped around the old "Well, I erupted this way so this is what I'm supposed to be." WRONG! You erupted that way because you erupted that way. Past that you got to bust your own trail. You just follow the easy shit and that's not you living up to your potential that's you taking the easy way.

Now, Mean and Green, you ain't taking the easy way and I say motherfucking brava to you for it. But we got newbs and cherries here all the time, don't go pissing in their stream with all your negative shit okay?

So miss Ashnod, you have had your little fun spreading your point of view, but you are still playing with smoke and mirrors.

I do not care what the teras is teaching. I care what the teragen are practicing. You seem to claim each nova has an "inner voice" and the must follow their own path. Yet you have the gull to damn any nova who works for Utopia,on the grounds they work for Utopia. Then turn about and at best claim that those like Epoch,are following their own path.

So, do you really care what novas do,or do you only care what membership card they carry?

The worst propaganda about the Teragen is...

Just because Baseline limits are exceeded we are become unfeeling monsters.

It's interesting that someone tossed out the terms Inhumane and Humane here.

I prefer the terms Benevolent and Malevolent.

They mean almost the same thing, but they do not need to be expressed with the Human weight that Humane and Inhumane produce.

You tell 'em, Lemmy.

Saying "I erupted into a giant Icicle" isn't saying your cold and unemotional. It means that your mind precieved it as the ultimate way to deal with your condition AT THAT MOMENT. That's it.

Look at it his way:
If you have to put a nail in a board, you get a hammer.
If you need to drive your car, you pull out your keys.
Don't assume because you had to do some hammering that you are expected to drive your car with your hammer.

Eruption is that first, single step. You have a lot more steps ahead of you, if you would just screw your courage up for the possibilities.
And, guess what? You may make some mistakes along the way, but don't we all?

I would suggest that you seek out a terat you admire/respect/can-stand/feel-a-connection-to and ask them in person.

It is really a personal thing that goes way beyond "my worst date experience" or "my cloth fetish is ..."

Dreamer?

Interesting that in the thread where you ask the Teragen to explain their stance, you go on the attack against it so quickly when the question has yet to be answered by a Terat.

This is not the way to encourage us to speak on this matter, given that you already know most of us are refraining.

Coincidently, "smoke and mirrors" is mostly commonly a reference to stage magic, where an illusion appears substantial but is merely a trick of sensory perception. I must confess I find its use as a means to discredit anything I have stated in this thread rather poorly thought out.

The Troll says:
During eruption I chose to identify with a comic character who has problems. Mostly the choice was a good one, it cleaned up my lungs, gave me several very nice skill sets, and the nova physic and metabolism are good. Even being able to turn green is mostly a good thing.

Dude, you are such a fucking geek. You're stuck in a prison of your own device, of your own adolescent fantasies and wish-fullfillment, and you're bitching at the Teragen?

What a fucktard.

I'm autistic, girlfriend. What's your excuse?

Fucktardation, perhaps? (Please don't crisp me for borrowing your favourite phrase, Salamander.)

Now, I'm not going to beat up on Dreamer here and I probably have the best excuse, since she has actually attacked me in the past.

Dreamer, from what I gather, the Terats damn the Utopians not for working at Project Utopia, but for buying into a mindset about what novas represent. This mindset was expressed in the first few days after N-Day. The novas were a problem to be handled, directed, and focused in an acceptable direction.
Acceptable to who?
It was acceptable to people who had no conception of who we were, what our potential would be, and all the problems we would face.
Dreamer, were you consulted? And, if so, why did you feel you could speak for those not yet erupted?

Now, I don't have a problem with Project Utopia. I contract with them from time to time, usually in an emergancy relief capacity with the UN. I like helping out. Its the type of guy I am, but it isn't for everyone.
Dr. Troll tried it as a semi-independant operator and it didn't go so well. He made the decision to become a researcher for PU and I hear he does good work. More power to him.

Doc, you should really try for some face to face time with an honest-to-God follower of Teras before you launch into another attack on them.
Give it a shot. My Dad did and it didn't change him all that much, but he tried.

Why is personal humanity sufficiently relevant to explicitly cast off?

What modes of behavior are exclusive to Nova-kind?

Just wanted to make sure you didn't overlook this Troll.

You could respond that none of us understand or will ever understand the unique aspects of your circumstance. Or you could decide that your unique circumstances don't define your potential or future not matter how much you want to use those to argue against a religion you don't endorse.

Either way its up to you to make the decision and then to take some real action on it.

Ashnod, if your sense of self, conscience, and morality comes from humanity, I consider someone to have a human self.

I am a nova. I don't have a problem with that. I have a human self and I have no problem with that either. Deny it all you like.

You have a human self and a nova self? How did... No, skip that. I don't even want to open that can of worms.

Instead I'd like to ask, "What if someone's sense of self, conscience and morality don't come from humanity?"

I call them V, or Ashnod, or Count Orziaz.

Alternatives are out there for us. Teras is one. Transhumanism is another. There will be more as we continue to grow and evolve.
I chose to embrace the humanism within me. My chosen morality is such that I can not stand idly by while other sentients are being killed. I find it to be wrong, and I find that I must attempt to stop those who would violate other people's lives and freedoms.

I thought Teras was a flavor of transhumanism?

I'm not arguing with your convictions or morals. They're one of the reasons I take the time to read what you post. I don't care for the way you label your views as human or humanism when you feel the need to say something on the subject. Theres a few billion of us humans so it shouldn't surprise you that some of us might have views a little different and still consider ourselves human. I grew up in America home of pseudo religious tolerance so if you don't believe the truth as held to the heart by Terats, Presbyterians or Jews that's alright with me. Take a number with all the other people disagreeing with someone's belief but you're okay with me.



I don't want another of what Billy calls :semantic dance, semantic dance:. You're a good man from the sound of it, or at least you believe in some things I think are good. I'm still not giving all things human a free pass just because I'm a little hazy on the alternatives.

Oh. And you sound just like Orzaiz btw. Opposite views but otherwise identical. Thought you might like to know that.

::steps out on limb::

Tarot, V could explain it better than I, but Transhumanism borrows heavily from human writings on the subject of extending one's will beyond the accepted human limits and is more of an amalgamation of human philosophy and nova perceptions.

Teras is a philosophy developed by novas, for novas, and deals with the premise, as Ashnod has pointed out, that novas, erupted or unerupted, are not human. Novas have to shed the human imprinting we took on prior to eruption in order to find our true selves.

::makes for the tree::

Ashnod: Deceive yourself all you wish, you are not human. No matter how much you claim to be, how much you live among them, how much you care for them, how much they love you or vice versa, you are NOT human…

The irony of this statement is no one has ever put a solid definition on what it means to be “human”.


Walker: The worst propaganda about the Teragen is... Just because Baseline limits are exceeded we are become unfeeling monsters.

That is indeed be propaganda and unfair…. Is it more fair to eliminate the word “unfeeling” and change it to “some Terats become”?


Lemmy Chillmeister: You're potential is everywhere and everything you stick-in-the-mud… Our potential is everthing.

A popular line of thinking, especially among people raised in democracies. Very egalitarian. Everyone has infinite potential…. NOT!!

Not every baseline has the potential to be Michael Jordan, Einstein, or even Michael Jackson. Pretending otherwise is normally harmless, but also is normally a fable best reserved for children. Back when Jordan ruled the court, overweight thirty year olds didn’t say “oh, yeah, I could do that”. Pretending it is different for novas is like telling that thirty year old that with enough steroids he could do it.

We have enormous potential. We can grow far beyond what we are now. That is not the same as “infinite”. Few, if any of us, can be Divis Mal… and one wonders what kind of price he has paid for this.

Be very wary of someone who offers infinite potential or power beyond what you view as your potential. That level of steroid abuse leads to problems.


Juri 'Salamander' McClendon:...You're stuck in a prison of your own device, of your own adolescent fantasies and wish-fullfillment, and you're bitching at the Teragen?

Neil Preston: Doc, you should really try for some face to face time with an honest-to-God follower of Teras before you launch into another attack on them. Give it a shot…

A fair statement Neil, and I may actually do that at some point.

A bit of background needs to be explained here. I research taint and/or aberrations. What causes them, how they work, that sort of thing. Ideally I’ll come up with a cure or at least some better treatments, and win a Nobel Prize in the process.

Part of that kind of research is, examining tainted novas up close. Some allow us to do this, lots more don’t allow it, but we still study them from afar.

The sample size is relatively small, but as near as I can tell, the correlation between Teragen members and aberrations is higher than the correlation between long term smoking and lung cancer. I can’t say for sure one causes the other, but the implications are disturbing.

It is easy to believe the Teragen has some deep understanding of taint and aberrations that I lack. It is easy to believe alcoholics have some deep understanding of alcoholism that I also lack. But I’ve never heard of alcoholics expounding the virtues of alcoholism. Saying that all baselines have the potential to become alcoholics isn’t the same as saying its desirable.

Even ignoring the sociological effects (which I don’t), I’m deeply concerned about all of this purely from a medical stand point.

Making this a huge waste of time. Nice. When you figure it out give me a call.

You know, even if Preston uses a lot of the same ambiguous terms at least he knows what he wants to argue for.

Historically the term "human" has been applied to people we want to give rights to. It has been withheld from people we want to oppress or to not give rights.

Thus a child born with an extremely flawed gene pattern and multiple deformities is "human".

When the UN called novas “human” they were attempting to provide a legal and social framework for us. We couldn’t be arbitrarily imprisoned, killed, etc.

When the Teragen and other “Trans-humanists” insist novas aren’t human, and the rest of humanity is thus something else, they are laying very dangerous groundwork.

It's quite simple.

Human = baseline.

Don't overly complicate things.

Says the guy that thinks the entirety of his potential can be summed up as, "Troll SMASH!" Not exactly a reliable source. You are really starting to piss me off, you know that?

Before we get too far away from it, potential is infinite. Look at any child, you cynical lurching geek.

It is the nature of a sentient species to care more about its own than about another, even if that other is also a sentient species. Thus, novas caring more about novakind does not make novas unfeeling, but it does give them a nova-centric morality.

Do you know this as fact? Do you know that we cannot all be Divis Mal's, or is it that most of us chose not to be?

All evidence currently indicates that the limitations of a nova are self-imposed, ergo, we are limited by what we believe is possible on a subconscious level. Even Farah Rashoud's research validates this.

Comparing this to Michael Jordan's ability to toss a basketball, or Einstein's ability with theoretical mathematics, is a fallacy. You are implying that some novas biologically have some advantage over others that predates their eruption, something that when their eruption triggers grants them more "power" than another. The only evidence we have upon what limits the scope of a nova's quantum expression is subconscious limitation.

We all have the potential to seize the infinite. That does not mean each of us will. Only that the potential is there.

Or it could be as simple as the Teragen, understanding that Taint is a natural facet of a Nova's evolution, do not fear it and in fact embrace it. That embracing it and with it the fact that we will change, and not clinging so hard to the idea that we have to look and act human, Taint does not affect us in the same manner it affects one who resists it.

Teras, for those of you who have some insight into this, allows a means of control over this evolution.

I do not expect you to believe or accept any of this, Dr. Smith, as your paradigm does not currently allow for Taint to be anything more than a treatable disease, something that can and must be cured at all costs. But using lung cancer and smoking as a means of comparing the correlation between aberrations and Terat novas is an incorrect way of thinking.

The majority of novakind currently has itself invested with the idea that we are comic book characters given life and form, that we are nothing more than normal people who have been gifted with "kewl powers." This is a fallacy. We are a completely new species, once who may undergo several metamorphoses in a lifetime. Clinging to the self-image that you must be as baseline as possible forces this transformation to occur without your consent and without your direction. Accepting it, embracing it, allows you to subconsciously, and at times, consciously direct it, as assuredly as you chose your limitations during your eruption.

A chick is blue, has hair that blows in an unseen wind or looks like a furry vulpinoid (I learned a new word today). A guy has horns, scales or spines growing out of his back. Definitely, sounds like the apocalypse to me.

:rolleyes:

I really hope that isn't killing your fun but how can either side argue with a straight face?

This is silly. I'm outie.

No offense Ma'am but I just don't think in reality it is ever going to work that way. You can give someone every tool to be a carpenter but some will never be good at it no matter how much they practice.

You may say we are limited by only subconsciousness but the fact is subconscious is part of who we are. Meaning that is the limitation, that is the set boundary. Is it the only one? I wish I knew.

Finally, I think this infinite potiential thing is a bunch of bull is because you are using a Human's research to base this on which just seems odd.

Well, how do I say this. You are like a snake oil salesman. You are sealing an idea,and that idea is meant to be bought up by the masses. You reach out to over powered people who are easily disillusioned by the normal world. You use cheap tricks to point holes in other systems. Then you put up the miracle drug. You put forth the idea that in a world full of billions of people, who are so used to brand naming, conformity and pragmatism, that you are one of a kind. You are a snow flake. Hell you are your own God. The best thing about it is that you do not have to listen to anyone besides yourself.

But, unless you buy into the cult,you are damned. So, tell me is the tereagen any better than a cult? Do you have any limits on who you let in? Is there anything any members of your cult can do, that would be too much? If one of your lackeys did the same thing as Utopia, but wore one of your hats, would they still be let in the kool-aid parties?

So, tell me is the membership card that you carry more important than the context of your actions?

And if you look at my first post it is rather civil, but in all reality, I did not think you would react to anything civil. You have dodge this topic too many times.

I am using a Utopian's research to speak to a Utopian, little griffin, nothing more. I base nothing of my own upon it.

I enjoy how everyone seemingly uses crafts and trades as comparisons to quantum expression. Since we are using your example, little griffin, I shall spell it out for you.

I can give a nova carpentry tools, and he may be unable to use them. The same nova can learn telepathy, and through the shared experience of a carpenter's memory, learn what he needs to know to be successful. Perhaps the same nova instead seeks out a telepath to link him to a carpenter. Perhaps the nova learns instead, a form of molecular control, and the need for tools becomes secondary to quantum expression.

A stretch? Perhaps. I am giving you a simple example of how a limitation can be overcome. You decide your own limitations, little griffin.

Taint
Is
Not
A
Disease

We don't know what it is.
We don't know what causes it, though we have some strong theories.
We don't even know that it isn't art of the natural evolution of novas.

You know I am not trying to bust your chops like Troll or Preston Ma'am. I always figure I have one foot in the door of the building you are in anyway.

I just ain't willing to color such a rosy picture of 'being all we can be' as you are. Maybe that is self limiting, maybe I am just not appreciating what our race can truly achieve. I guess time will tell.