Doctor Troll, you are welcome.
Before you attack the Chrysalis process, perhaps an attempt could be made by Project Utopia to study it?

Also, is 100% success necessary? We commonly use medical procedures with a far lower success rate. Since taint is endemic among us, shouldn't we look at it in the light of a benefits vs. drawback/failure analysis?

Neil Preston: Doctor Troll, you are welcome. Before you attack the Chrysalis process, perhaps an attempt could be made by Project Utopia to study it?

Yes.


Neil Preston: Also, is 100% success necessary?

No, it isn't. But 100% does appear to be the claim.

Careful of what you are putting in my mouth.

What I have claimed is that it didn't lead to someone dying of Taint, someone regretful of the decision to study and enact Teras, or someone that is a "Taint-buttered" monstrosity due to their attempts to learn the basics.

And more specifically, I claimed that I was unaware of a case meeting Troll's criteria and not that my word was infallable beyond a shadow of a doubt, and I also stated that I expected someone to provide an example proving me incorrect.

I have not claimed that every single person who studied Teras up to this point has successfully undergone a Chrysalis.

"My" criteria was pretty broad but let's skip that.

What ARE you claiming?

Is it easy? Hard? Hmm...

Ashnod: it didn't lead to someone ... that is a "Taint-buttered" monstrosity due to their attempts to learn the basics.

Interesting qualifier, "basics". At a guess, it doesn't just direct taint, it also enhances it? More taint in exchange for more control?

The success cases; You, Apep, Geryon, others? But Sloppy Joe doesn't count, because he's never tranformed... and you don't think he will.

Dr. Smith,

You are misrepresenting my words deliberately. Do NOT put words in my mouth again.

That is all.

Ashnod,

I hate that I have to. I don't have telepathy so I have to extrapolate.

A simple "Yes, that is true" or "No, I don't think [that], you are wrong" would be good. Even right now I don't know at which point I put my foot in my mouth.

Ashnod:
You are misrepresenting my words deliberately.

Dr. Smith:
I hate that I have to. I don't have telepathy so I have to extrapolate

"Have to" implies that yes, you are doing it deliberately and purposefully. Extrapolating implies that you are not.

Either way, I care little for your reasoning any longer. I am not speaking with you on this further. You did not ask a question of me. You twisted my words and made a declaration on my behalf.

Ashnod: "Have to" implies that yes, you are doing it deliberately and purposefully. Extrapolating implies that you are not.

Both imply my information is limited.


Ashnod: You did not ask a question of me. You twisted my words and made a declaration on my behalf.

I made 9 sentances. SIX were questions. One a comment about myself... ah...
you don't think he will.

I'm Sorry. I should have ended that in a question mark as well.

Now why would folks ask questions when they got to know they ain't gonna shut up long enough to hear the answer?

Don't make no sense.

Come on Cody. Stop being a terat for a little while and give the Doc a break. He asked some questions that it would be nice to have answered. Sometimes the weight of the question is greater than the cause of the questioner.

Don't be putting labels on me. Don't be picking at me to see what I'll say back. You want to know something you just ask me plain and simple.

Weren't just Doc Smith I was talking about. If a body picks a fight he got no call to blame anyone but himself. Now if Doc got himself a bushel of problems that's bad but I ain't one to force help on a body unasked. Once they do ask they shouldn't oughtta be bitching when it comes the way its going to come.

Jager, Troll doesn't ask shit. He's got his little world in his head set up and ain't no one gonna change it. He acts like he's asking questions but he's looking for more ways to attack something he's fucking well afraid of. He asks a question and there is only one answer in his head that he'll accept and that's whatever will make him comfy and warm with his little world view, anything else is an attack on his religion and Lord Above if he can let that stand. But then we have the fact that he's too much of a pussy to actually go out and do anything about the icky old Teragen and all our hateful ways so he's stuck sitting at his computer spitting out his impotent rage.

"Now wait a minute Lemmy," you might think, "Aren't you just sitting at a computer spouting awful profanity?"

Yes, yes I am. I am also out there living my words. I am on the road and rocking it in righteous technicolor. Oh, and the places I'll go.

Jager: [Doc] asked some questions that it would be nice to have answered. Sometimes the weight of the question is greater than the cause of the questioner.

Exactly.


Lemmy Chillmeister: Troll… acts like he's asking questions but he's looking for more ways to attack something he's fucking well afraid of. He asks a question and there is only one answer in his head that he'll accept and that's whatever will make him comfy and warm with his little world view, anything else is an attack on his religion and Lord Above if he can let that stand.

This isn’t about me. With more information out there people can make informed decisions. Is the philosophy of the Teragen so weak it can’t stand a question or six? Must it always be surrounded by believers lest it fall apart? Must the world be kept ignorant so that Teras remains an attractive choice?

Oh my.

Well, that's a fair answer to many of my questions.

Teras, then, teaches a means of 'harnessing taint'. Does this provide a cure for the fatal forms of aberrancy syndrome? I am aware that, once sufficiently advanced, many aberrations cause the death of a nova. Does Teras (however it may work), properly executed, prevent these 'fatal aberrations' from occurring?

Troll Dude I'm not really surprised that you ain't getting it, super IQ not withstanding, I didn't get it at first either. No one is trying to be mysterious with you they're trying to illuminate things for you. Especially Ashnod. My own chances are slim but try this analogy for size.

I want to send you some electricity, give us your address and I'll drop some in an envelope and send it to you...

Hang on a minute, electricty don't work that way does it? All I can do is send you a letter describing how you can get your hands on some of your own.

Alchemist With the possible exceptions of Mu Lung detonating over Kashmir, Very Bad Blakely going indestructable and maybe, just maybe what-ever happened in Sao-Paulo I am not aware of any fatal aberrations. Well none fatal to the Nova in question.

Cody Hey man, hows it going?!!? Long time no see. Hope everything is cool in your world an' all.

Walker: I've also got several more examples from Alex Craft's research notes on Quantum Backlash Syndrome. Plus, I've heard a few stories related to the Bahrain Rashound Facility... But those are only rumors.

I'm mostly curious because this Teras philosophy seems to lead to more aberrations (Dr. Troll does have a point with his lung cancer analogy). While it's all well and good to embrace these changes and 'channel' them to your own benefit, if the change is outright lethal then there is suddenly a very strong argument for Dr. Troll's 'abstinence' philosophy.

Alchemist In common with Ashnod I know of no follower of Teras that this has happened to though my knowledge is not as extensive as that one's. I have been told that 'loss of cohesion' is a risk but know of not a single Nova following Teras that this has happened to. I haven't had a chance to check out much of Alex's research though I should be able to access a copy. Must do so. Cheers for the tip.

I suspect that those rumours from nazi-death-camp, errr, I mean Bahrain Nova Evaluation Facility, errr, no, I do mean nazi-death-camp are more to do with stupid baselines interfering and screwing the whole thing up. Is this just me being paranoid?

Walker: I want to send you some electricity, give us your address and I'll drop some in an envelope and send it to you...

Hang on a minute, electricity don't work that way does it? All I can do is send you a letter describing how you can get your hands on some of your own.

Fair enough. Let’s go back to a few of those unanswered questions then.

Am I right in that it doesn't just direct taint, it also enhances it? More taint in exchange for more control?

Urban Legends for killed by taint:

1) Male nova in poor village in 3rd world who starved to death because no one could figure out what he ate.
2) Female nova in 3rd world who erupted with a permanent fire field and only partial immunity to it (killed herself rather than continue to face the pain).

The reality:

I can’t say I know of anyone actually killed by it, but, there are reasons why we wouldn’t. The node is on top of the head. Assume for a moment that the theory about aberrations causing and being caused by brain damage is true (I like to assume that). The part of the brain taking damage would tend to lead towards insanity before death. So the really aberrated would first go mad, then die. The only place on Earth for someone that far gone would be Bahrain. Put another way, there are limits to how much brain damage even the nova brain can stand.

Walker, I am surely sorry about the way I left. Don't sit right with me what with the work being undone and you having no real way to finish on your own. Can only say it was a family matter. You know you ain't the easiest of folks to get a hold of on short notice either.

Is that a fact. Coulda fooled me.

Troll You're kind of right, more taint, more control. The taint is used to fuel the advent of one's Chrysalis so I guess you could say it's 'enhanced'.

Hmmm, nah that's not really right, can't think of a better explanation though. This is like trying to learn martial arts from a book that doesn't even have pictures.

Discussion is largely irrelevant, 'empowered action' is what really counts.

Cody No worries, I ain't exactly in the League's good books anymore. If you get in touch with Cyrus he could probably still do with your help though.

Got other things to be doing so Cyrus is gonna have to keep making do however he did when I left. Just glad I didn't burn a bridge with you when I had to leave.

Just glad that the shit I got in didn't screw you up. I was kinda worried.

A little part of my field notes here:

I feel that aberrations have a purpose. What are they telling us about ourselves, our QE's and how the two interact and become one?
What if we didn't look at the limitations posed by our aberrations as limitations, but instead saw them as a means of forcing us to alter our perceptions of existance? Basically, we are creating our own evolutionary hurdles, and yes, that means some of us may be digging ourselves traps we can't bring ourselves to escape.

The Teragen stand for standing apart from humanity. That's all I need to know. Yes, we're different and I can understand that. But we shouldn't be apart. We are all the children of god, of this planet, whatever you want to call it. We're here and being together and doing good together is better than struggling apart.

Hmm...

How long do the various stages of all this take?
How much control do you end up with?

Wait, a Teragen thread that actually address the "esteemed" Butterfly effect? I was wondering when this was going to come up. Not. That. I know. Anything. about. it.

Yeah, I was avoiding this flamefest like the plague but I've actually had a pleasant time reading it. I'm surprised.
Oh and I need to see Troll and Ashnod in a mud pit wrestling.

billy Horrorshow:[qb]I need to see Troll and Ashnod in a mud pit wrestling.

Love to.

It weren't bad. Educated some on the difference between country and stupid. Could'a told them outright but you know some folks just ain't got a lick a sense. Reckon I done found just about every back road, dirt trail and gulley wash what would hold a mans boot too. Some folks ain't happy but I figure it all come out in the wash.

Learned from it. Can't ask for more.
I'm thinking a man got to be able to stand on his own. The good lord gave us these gifts for a reason though I won't presume to trouble you with what those might be. I'd surely love if you would look on it the same for me.

I expect to be disappointed but there you go.

Well, if you want to bring the Good Lord into it Cody I'd say he created all of us and he didn't create us to be alone. We are of one people, all with a soul and all of us living life. Maybe these gifts are burdens, crosses to bear as well? We are given gifts that encourage us to experience pride, and to believe that we are above living with our fellow man, and it is up to us to realize that only in community can we really achieve our true potential.

But that's just me.

And maybe that's just another way of saying crutches are good things. If you can't stand on your own you got not call for telling a body what he should or shouldn't be doing.

Try it. Might find you have a taste for it. Once you know you can do it then you can decide what you should be doing.

Okay, how about you and I take a step back and smile?

Standing on your own in society is a good thing. Independence not dependence. But, interaction and not isolation, that's what I'm trying to say. If I'm misunderstanding you, I'm sorry.

Gerald, you ever stepped up into the mountains or out into the back woods without a cellphone, computer, opnet whatnot or radio? Figured out how to live without instant food and powerbars? Give it a try. If'n you can't make it then you know for sure. If'n you can...

It'll give you a different view. Ain't about isolation.

Now, if you're talking about just getting away from it all, yeah, I do that sometimes. Damn man, I need to. But I mean I don't think people ought to chose isolation as a regular lifestyle.

Out in the wild there ain't way to hide from yourself. Ain't no way blame someone else. There's you and there's that big damn sky. Puts things into perspective.

Gives you a good look at what you really believe.

And again, I don't have a problem with the whole "finding yourself" thing. I think it's a good idea. But wanting to permenently remove yourself fromm humanity, well, that's not finding yourself, that's running away from us.

Got to know yourself afore you can be yourself with others Gerald. What you do then is what you do and up to you.

Take ol'Doc for instance. Ain't like he's stupid. He just been locked in the cellar but wants to talk about the sun. Wants to tell others whats right and whats wrong but he's still got that cellar door locked tight on account of he might get a surn burn. Up to him.

Cody, I don't even think you need to isolate yourself to find yourself. You need to control you distractions and keep to your core. Listen to both your heart and your mind and find the point of fusion.
I've been walking the world for a good bit now. I've been to places were I didn't pass three people in a day, and lived in cities were millions of people have crammed themselves into a few square miles.
I'm glad you found a method that worked for you, Cody, but don't be so hard on Dr. Troll. You don't know his mind and you haven't lived his life. Let him find his own way.

Gerald, some of us will want and need to leave humanity behind. We, as novas, should help them in that transition as much as we can. We have so much to learn from all our members if we would just be patient enough to learn.