I really think that tranchumanist is rather narrow point of view. I believe that those novas who think that they were once human, and now some how managed to transcend human limit, to be rather human.

I do not think we(Novas) on person levels have transcended humans, any more than any human can be said to have transcended apes. The normal human was born human, and will die human. The normal nova was born a nova, and will die a nova.

But then again, those who transcended humanity are in some way better than humans. Or am I wrong in that statement?

That being said,if that is true .I prey damn hard that I never transcend humans, as I do not seek to be better than others, I seek only to be.

It would seem more productive for Novas concerned with quantum progression to be self-transcendent. It is thought that Nova variability is such that neither humans nor other Novas provide an entirely adequate baseline for advancement. But one's own past, present and future self maintain a fair level of relevance for most given individuals.

The desire to be better than you are seems more healthy than the desire to be better than someone else. ... With 'healthy' being defined nebulously and left open to reasonable interpretation.

There are probably too many ways to transcend humanity (some of them mutually exclusive) to make any concrete statement about the utility of pursuing such transcendence. Seeking to distance oneself from humanity is another matter, though it seems that the two issues are often blurred.

In the nova era, transhuman has been somewhat co-opted to mean many things, not all of them completely faithful to the literal meaning of the word.

While I may call myself transhuman, for example, I don't think it's necessarily an automatic transcendent condition, anymore than I think someone who calls "eirself" transgender has actually transcended gender.

I do believe that the potential for transcendence is possible for novas, especially with how great our control over the laws of science is with the M-R Node, but I don't think being nova automatically guarantees it.

But that's just my thoughts, mind you. I can transform my body into energy and back into matter and have my conscious mind survive the transformation. That tends to change your perspectives on who and what you are a little bit, you know.

Too confused for a simple artist to sort out.

Rock on.

Violette, you missed the point. A rock has no gender, and for better or worse just is. That rock has not transcend the limits of genders. It never had one. I am stating that novas can't trascend humans, because novas never were humans in the first place.

Or in other words, one first must be something to transcend it.

No, I didn't miss it. And all I said, Vanguard, was that transhuman doesn't necessarily mean to "transcend" humanity. It's come to mean other things.

The rest is my opinion.

In its strictest sense, transhuman can mean both 'more than human' and 'transcending humanity' in the sense that a person has overcome the limitations of human biology and nature.

In that case, humanity has been transcending itself for eons, most particularly in the Eastern religions.

I would prefer to describe those who choose the path of Teras as 'inhuman', for they are rejecting their humanity altogether.

transhuman, human, nova, baseline.

None of his really matters. We are all animals. We all live on this planet. We all have to deal with each other.

By eating them right? :rolleyes:

Do humans reject there apemanity? Do dogs reject their wolven blood? Novas are not human, so they have no "humanity" in them to reject.

Then, by all mean tell me what it means. I would like to hear what transhuman means.

We have the same genetic sequences. That makes us human.

Or they could whine and moan when they are not the center of the known world. Cull, does not have many points, and I do not agree with him on most of them, but you fail to see that he has the ability to change, and the ability to improve himself. Now, I do now know if he has changed himself, but in all honesty I find his actions to be less disgusting than the major meat suppliers of the world.

We do not have the same sequencing. Even your Rashoud Facilities acknowledge this. It is how they test for latency. The intron sequencing between novas and baselines are different. This research was done with a double-blind sampling of 5,000,000 individuals. The six samples in that 5,000,000 that turned up the intron sequencing were novas.

So, you think acids makes us, what we are? Would you call, a poodle a wolf? Would you really bottle up everything that makes humans into test tubes, and forget the unmeasurable qualities of humanity?

A possibly good/relevant question to which no answer is immediately expected: Where did the Nova trait come from? There is no (personally known) sign of gradual development (unless (nearly) having a node offers some evolutionary advantage not easily detected).

If any given baseline bloodline has the (slight) chance to develop Novahood, that is interesting.

If there are separate but stable and compatible 'Nova lines' among the baseline population, that is also interesting.

If there is an unseen complicating factor, it is probably interesting.


To say now that Novas are biologically decoupled from baselines seems premature. Perhaps it would be prudent to determine if helping the rest transcend, over the next X generations, where X is possibly a large number, would be a worth while pursuit. ... For someone.


It is still too early to make concrete and far-reaching determinations/actions, is it not? The power and the will is prevalent, but data remains in short supply. Perhaps it is best not to so readily forsake as an inferior species what might be a precious larval component of the Nova lifecycle. And if the baselines were found to be sweet larvae, what is to say Novas are anything but creepy twitching pupae, who are also sweet and well-liked? Would those who seek to writhe out of their husks so rapidly into adulthood find their situation objectively improved? Childhood is looked back upon fondly by so many, and so often with regret. Is it not so?

The fast track to transcendence would probably be good for some. But those would need not disdain other courses. The larvae would need tending.

Insufficient data is at the ready. Haste may yet make waste. Apologies for decreasing returns on coherency.

Vanguard, your question is... rather perplexing. If I answered it, I would be left in a paradox that would leave me hypocritical.

So I'll just state this in as simple of terms as possible to be perfectly clear.

1: I am no longer human. That does not mean that I am Inhumane.

2: I am a Nova, which is the next stage of humanity. Hopefully. I would like to put forth a good example to my fellow Novas to follow, but I am a poor role model it seems.

3: Trancending Humanity is something Novas do automatically. Even if we like it or not. I've learned to deal with it and accept the fact that my days as a Human are over.

4: The real issue is a question of Paradigm. How much of Nova society will be influenced by our ancestral heritage. A building cannot be built without a strong foundation. One unfortuantely that is currently not even constructed yet. I wish it were different, but then again things do run slow for a mind like mine.

Xeno: I've been giving that some thought recently. There are some important facts to considder:

1. Families (but not necessarily lineages) that have one nova are far more likely to produce additional novas.

2. The distribution of novas among planetary populations is statistically random, as is their date of erruption.

3. The gene responsible for nova latency was present before 1998, but produced no (or very, very few) erruptions.

Without more data, my best theory is that there was some form of environmental change (I don't believe that the Galatea explosion caused the beginning of the nova age), which lead to erruptions. This triggered a boost in whatever biological advantage an unerrupted nova gains from living in that state (the proof of that tidbit is a dissertation in and of itself). And the mutation/evolution that lead to unerrupted novas happenned a very, very long time in our past (I'm fairly certain that it's been with us since the beginning of homo sapiens, give or take a hundred thousand years).

An evolutionary biologist would be better able to handle the detail work. If only we had one handy...

There are that few of us? Oh my. I had hoped there would be more.

No. You make it sound like I eat people all the time. I really have not eaten that many. While I was swimming from the West to the East Coast I did not eat a single person. So there.

I think you have too much faith in the word humane. For if you took that word to only mean traits of humans, then genocide is humane. I am not human, this doesn't mean I do not have morals, or ethics.

We must all find our own path. We must understand that no one knows everything about being a nova. Humans have had thousands of years of written history and debates over what it means to be human, and no one clearly has the answer.

We will be forced to live much differently than humans. We as novas have resources at our finger tips that far greater than our needs.

I went by the actual definition, Vanguard. Humane = The expression of compassion, kindness, and generosity towards others.

While your arguement makes sense, it's not any direction I'm going.

As for knowing who I am and where I'm going... Well, who knows how long it'd take for Novas in general, and I specifically.

Transcend
Main Entry: tran·scend
Pronunciation: tran(t)-'send
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin transcendere to climb across, transcend, from trans- + scandere to climb -- more at SCAN
transitive senses
1 a : to rise above or go beyond the limits of b : to triumph over the negative or restrictive aspects of : OVERCOME c : to be prior to, beyond, and above (the universe or material existence)
2 : to outstrip or outdo in some attribute, quality, or power
intransitive senses : to rise above or extend notably beyond ordinary limits


Do we rise above the limits of the human animal? Do we move beyond the negative restrictions of our unerupted selves? Do we outstip or outdo in some (if not all) attribute, quality or power?

The answer seems fairly obvious to me. But that's just me.

Adequate prioritization of transcendental elements seems critical.

The ability to wield The Outside could be very bad for many concerned parties, if mastery of The Inside is lacking.

Rephrased: The functional difference between a Higher Being and a (possibly deranged) "Human With Cool Powers" is self imposed and not automatic. Probably.

...

Personal Theory, unsuitable for general assertion: Mastery of The Inside will tend to negate hostility on the Outside. That is good by most known reasonable standards. Look Inside. There are good items there. Sometimes.

And do I come off as advocating that you should be cruel, selfish or out right evil?

Do we rise above the limits of the human animal?
In some ways yes, in other ways no.

Do we move beyond the negative restrictions of our unerupted selves?
It is easier to do so by defining those negative aspects as no longer being negative. What is the definition of negative limitations for a nova?

Do we outstip or outdo in some (if not all) attribute, quality or power?
In that aspect we are more easily defined as superior to, if not exactly transcending, baselines.

Are we still bound by hate, greed, fear, and avarice? I believe we are and thus not very near a spiritual trancendence yet.

Preston, that's why we should try to be better than our ancestor race. Not bicker amongst ourselves and not achieve our fullest potential.

thing is, I find searching for your fullest potential for self gratification to be quite boring and not very enlightening. To excel for the search of knowledge and to expand the boundaries of what Humanity and Novakind know is a far more noble cause.

As for calling Human limitations a negative, doesn't that lead to hubris? I have limitations myself that for the life of me I've been unable to supercede. At least withought lots and lots of gear, and even that only covers so much.

I've learned to accept there are things I cannot do, nor will be able to do. Doesn't stop me from finding a way to do something, but I'm not dissapointed if I find I can't.

I may not be human, but I'm no goddess either. I'm a Nova, and that's all I need to be.

Which ways are you speaking of?
I have overcome the need for sleep, which would be considered a limit of the human animal, so a yes. I am not beyond the need to communicate and socialize with others, so I retain that limit.

Is a spiritual transcendence required?
I do not know. It would be nice if we were heading in that direction, but I do not see it.

Is a spiritual transcendence required?

This is the saddest question seen to date.

It is a wrenching revelation that any, or much, fervent focus on transcendence might only be for better meat... For more mastery of The Outside. The Outside is only where one is. It is not what one is.

Surely the question was very hypothetical, yes? That Teras could be devoted, at its core, simply to quantum meat manipulation had never entered consideration. It is a panful concept.

Simple baseline meat often suits its functional requirements adequately. It is the Inside that stands to benefit from a Higher Level. Quantum goodies may be a means. ... But if they are only their own ends, even to those must fervent in their pursuit, it would imminently distressing.

There is a conflict in Dualist thinking in that there is the belief that the physical is evil/base while the spiritual/cerebral is uplifted somehow.

For instance, does spiritual transcendence require a repudiation of the flesh, or does the flesh needed to become transcendent as well?

The meat is inert and pointless in the absence of the mind. It is felt... fairly safe... to assert this.

Better physical condition/ability is often good for the individual. But it makes the mind weak if The Outside becomes the sole focus. There is no morality in meat. Meat is a tool of The Inside. Meat is a box. Meat is an interface.

In the case of Novas, it was felt that the Quantum powers were surely the means by which comprehension of The Outside and The Inside would be expanded. Thus The Inside could be improved, repaired, ascended. This is why Novas are thought pupae-like now: their capabilities are not so consistently indicative/supportive of the primary appealing cause for having them at all. This needs to change eventually.

The Analogy: Take one's Nova as a baseline sweet-larva thing. The Nova-ness is defined as a mechanical support structure, facilitating the growth, mobility and protection of the larva. The larva is now free to pupate! To ascend! ... But most Nova larva-mech things seem to be more interested in improving their mechanical superstructure than themselves... even letting their larva-meat atrophy in some cases. It is not good. It is very sad. But it may get better. When some start to understand what they are missing.

We have not risen above humans limits. We have not risen above their needs. We have no become their gods, nor their monsters. We are not bound by the same needs. But we are not above, nor are we below them. We are not better, and we are not worse.

I say these things, because of all the important traits of human, not one can be weighed. Not one can be compared nor contrasted. We are a lot like humans in many ways that matter the most, but that doesn't mean we are human. We as novas will become different than them, and those differences will only grow over time. We will not fit into any system that will work for them. Nor will they fit into any system that will work for us. In a system built for them we will either by our own graces work in a system that will limit our growth, thus in all but word having a self government, or we will act in ways that will displace and destroy many lives. But I fear that most people here do not want to know about the real modern wars.

We are not human. We have not moved past the limits of human. If anything we have yet to reach the limits of nova abilities.

You know, that "separate but equal" crap went out in the 20th century. Sure, we're not like them, but we're sure as hell superior in most ways. In a Zen-like manner, sure we just "are" as much as normal people. But in practical application we are a superior animal.

I would consider myself superior only when I can fully trancend the material. The thing is considering yourself superior would only keep you in the material through hubris and selfish pride.

I try to be the best I can be because it's probably the only way I think I can excel. Both in ability and in ethics and morals.

Although... as Jager knows full well, I'm not... very chaste when under the influence. ~.^

Dolphins are infinitely superior to humans but they do not spend even a tenth as much time talking about it as you people here do.

Think about that.

So? We're based off of a very talkative race.

Genetic imperative, I guess.