One Agnelli and Blue Cherry. How did she pull the trick off?I could rather detail explain this away, but the simplest answer is this, she advoids all novas who know who she is, that she doesn't trust. She doesn't look like she used to.If I wanted to, I could use the rules to make it so that no nova could ID her from her node.But that is not the point.

Would Utopia know the truth?Maybe, but unlikely. Is this because they couldn't find out?No, it is because Utopia has bigger things to worry about.And even if some of Utopia knows, it is unlikely to spread out to places that don't need it. the main reason being, if her cover is blown, she could just fade away,and never been seen again.

She is not an idapedant.She has backers who have their fingers in a lot of pies.

Juri.I have tried to think of anyway she would not go to prison for at least 20 years,and I have failed.In fact, even if she was not found guilty of a few fellionies, the court case would be MOUNTHS.During witch it would be HIGHLY unlikely for her to not to be held without bond.

Taint. I think of taint as something like a cancer. Note that it acts,and behaves like cancer.

How did she get rid of her Aberrations (the anima banner or something like it, that you mentioned when she used her power.)?

She was a former Teen2M'er. I think they would in fact be very interested in what she did. They probably wouldn't announce it to the world, or even to T2M members possibly. But they would know.


She committed arson that didn't result in anyone dying or even being hurt and it didn't spread. Yes, she would very likely face legal consequences, but 20 years? Stop watching Law and Order. As for withholding bond? Bullshit. She isn't a flight risk as she is instantly recognizable wherever she goes and she isn't likely to re-commit the crime, she already erupted.

Good for you. As I told you in PM I think that is an overly simplistic analogy. For one thing, it very likely won't kill you.

Listen, as I told you in PM, you're not welcome in this story. I don't want your input, I don't want your advice, and I frankly don't care what you think about it. You made up facets of things without consulting me first, without getting the details from me first so that you could be accurate on the circumstances. What I do with this story and this character is no longer your concern.

And while we're on the subject of this, I just want to say that making up numerical statistics to back up your point of view is an incredibly poor way to roleplay here. Sure, we can accept that you're making them if we so choose, but you're attempting to put the weight of "history" behind your arguments and you've got no canon evidence to back up your numbers.

I do on the other hand have real historical proof that your character,save by the grace of god is hosed.If the atempt at sucicide caused the eruption, and the eruption caused the fire.That is first degree arson. When you actively break a law,and then also break another law the second law is likely to turned into first degree.This is mainly true when breaking the first law is a first degree crime and directly leads to the breaking of the next law.Someone breaking into a bank who kills a gaurd is guilty of first degree,on both counts.Setting off bombs in old where houses...

In some cases the methods that were used to cause the fire,could be treated as an act of terrorism.Witch is punishable by death.Note that it could be argued in court that do to the devasating effects of novas' abilities they should be treated as if they were using military grad weapons.It is also clearly stated he novas often are considered to be deadly weapons.Blue hitting someone, is commting assault with a deadly weapon.

Juri is also a nova, with highly leathal powers.As such Juri a danger to the public as a whole.

And you should talk to Amber Kings of LA, who is serving her 12 year out of 25 years for doing the same thing, well about.She didn't become a nova,and tried to kill self in with a fire,rather than kill herself and get a fire.

You want your character ot the boards,that's great.Hell that's nice.But if you make your bed, you better sleep it in it. I removed a character that I enjoyed for less clear legal problems than this.. But in the end let's say you get the charges the way you said they are, that is still a few years Juri is in the poky.

And that may very well end up how I end the character, with her incarcerated. But you don't get any say in how it gets done.

For the record. Second Degree arson. That's it. All she's charged with. I did my research for the state of Alabama. That's all they would charge her on. No suicide ruling, because the intent of the fire was not suicide. Her building was the only one affected. No other people were hurt. That's Arson only, and since the intent was not to harm anyone, it's second degree. That's a MAXIMUM of 20 years.

This debate is over. I'm not arguing with you any longer. I'm not talking with you any longer. If you don't drop it, I'm seeking moderation.

Bullshit. Sandy admitted to first degree murder. She picked a fight with individuals she knew couldn't hurt her and killed them. Big difference.

And you didn't just remove your character. You had a good portion of the board arguing with you that what you were doing was hard core bogus and it took you forever to relent.

Comited first degree murder you say?Check up on justifiable use of force in California would you?In cases in witch someone is threating the life of a human, deadly force is legal.Yes, killing is legal in the case of California VRs Davis.You waving a gun at me, or a crowd removes all your civil liberties away.

The fact that Davis went after them doesn't make it illegal.They were threating the lives of California citazens.They had the means,motive and opportunity to kill people.(This is the time when cops try to talk you down until they know they can kill you without any harm to civilians) The fact that Sandy was harmed in the fighting also adds reason to her actions.

Lastly, bragging is not a crime.If i go outside and say I killed JFK,or master minded 9/11, they could arest me..If in a trail I was proven not to have done such thing and I started saying I did them..Guess what?I still have free speech.

Here it is, there is at least reasonable doubt that Sandy Davis did not unjustifiably kill those people.There is none for Juri.

Interesting. Each post seems, in some small measure, to contradict details of the original posts describing the situation. Was she hurt or was she not. Could they harm her or was she invulnerable. Did she have no choice or did she choose a terminal solution over lesser means. Was she acting as a private citizen or not.

Another point; Sandy Davies killed. Juri McClendon destroyed property. I don't see the common ground for comparing the actions of one to the actions of the other where weighing crimes.

If one has reasonable doubt,and one doesn't.If I steal a car in a manor that leaves no Question as to my guilt, and I may or may not have killed 10 people.Guess when I am more likely to go free?

Will you just drop it? Salamander has said that she will handle the legal aspect and that jail time is a possibility. She has also said that your opinions aren't welcome.

The two cases are worlds apart and it's pathetic that you can't see that. Sandy KILLED 6 PEOPLE. Bragged about it. Online. I've seen Sandy's character sheet remember, even the toned down ones would have a hard time claiming self-defense in any way shape or form. You tried to pretend that it would be an open and shut case with Sandy free as a bird in no time and that was ridiculous.

Salamander will very likely need to face some serious consequences for her actions. But the legal system is slow as hell. Notice how long it took for Kobe to even have to enter a plea? Like I said, she isn't a flight risk and won't be a danger to anyone else so she very likely would get bail.

Something else I'd like to point out, as the author of the piece introing Salamander in N! News. It stated that authorities would be looking into other instances, not that she actually HAD commited other crimes, so don't bring that up. It was an example of journalistic excess.

I will, but that is becuase talking to a wall is pointless.

As for taint as cancer. I believe taint is like a cancer for the purposes of "curing" it. Let's take cancer,and one the best ways to cure it.Killing a part of someone that is near the cancer.You kill all cells around the cancer in order to get at the cancer. taint is quantum, just uncontrolled quantum. Just like skin cancer is still skin cells, just uncontrolled skin cells.

Now if you remove and area of quantum you remove the taint as well. If you could some how target areas, small enough you could hit the tainted part of the quantum field in people.This may cause the lose of abilities in said novas, but if done in the right way it could cure taint, with the least side effect and the longest time scale for stability.The teragen are on a path to madness.

Actually, most of the Teragen are on their way FROM Madness. By following an Archetype and using the philosophy of Teras, they will nominally get Chrysalis instead of Taint. And while Chrysalis will aberrate you, it doesn't TAINT you.

Which means - this doesn't affect your Willpower for the purposes of resisting mental problems caused by Taint.

You are also able to remove permanent and temporary Taint while in Chrysalis.

You can change a mental aberration to a physical aberration while in Chrysalis.

And because they are subconsciously (or consciously, depending how much control the ST gives you) "guiding" the way they Aberrate from Chrysalis, they don't have the shock and trauma of aberrations developing that horrify them. No waking up to discover you have tentacles that you can't control now, for example.

The Terats are going to be LEAST affected by Taint-induced disorders (not including those who simply never got enough Taint to aberrate). This is CANON per the Terat book. Yes, they will also look more monstrous/alien and be more removed from baselines, but they won't be insane.

The Terats are going to be LEAST affected by Taint-induced disorders (not including those who simply never got enough Taint to aberrate). This is CANON per the Terat book.

I'm not sure about that.

Terats rack up lots of aberrations. Yes, they mostly choose what they are, and they can alter mental ones into physical ones, but they still rack up lots of aberrations.

I'm not sure having 4 aberrations of my choice is better than having one that isn't.

More to the point, if you choose to be a Terat, then you are choosing to have aberrations, you are choosing to get enough taint to get aberrations.

IMHO I would rather choose to not have them.

Look at her quote again Doc. Terats will be least affected by TAINT-INDUCED DISORDERS. They will still be affected by Chrysalis-induced disorders. Difference. You're looking at it from a baseline-centric POV. A Terat would view 4 abberations that they chose as being better than one that they didn't. You just have a different worldview. It's not necessarily wrong, or right, just different.

Teragen are not only insanve because of their taint.Teras premouts the idea that not only is God on yourside, but you are in fact God.

Terageen embrace taint, they simply do it it in a less damning way.But they still damn themselves, for they can do no wrong, they are drunk on power,and their ways only blind them more.

That is your opinion as a player, Signy. It has no affect on the actual mental capacity of any of the characters, some of whom are frightengly more intelligent that you are. You are criticizing their beliefs, not the actual mental state they exist in. Not all Terats believe they are gods. Not all Terats believe you can do no wrong. Not all of them are drunk on power. I understand that you disagree with them, but that doesn't make their ideas the product of madness, or make them mad for having came up with them.

At the core of Teras is also a strong sense of personal responsibility. As with any philosophy there are disengenous intellectuals, poseurs and the really "out there" but the core exists. The night of the long knives and how it all plays out will in part decide whether that falls by the wayside.

One nicely thought out story I read posits the events up to the war is the result of sinking to the level of humanity. Realizing they're winning the battle at the cost of losing the war, becoming what they were trying to transcend, brings with it an epiphany. There is no "war". Thus comes the exodus.

Nice story. A little too neat in parts but very nice.

in teras there is not right or wrong as a core set.I make what is right and wrong for me, and you do for you. thuse you must suffer the reactions to your action,and youare the only to one to blame for what you do...But seeing you make your own moral codes, you can do no wrong.It is like this, no one ever calls themselves evil, as if they did things they thought was evil, they wouldn't do it.

That view has more than a little cynicism to it. You could construct a moral code that brings with it no wrong to any action you commit to ergo you could be nothing more than a selfish ass. Not everyone is going to sink to that level if for no other reason than most aren't deluded to think they can breeze through a moral code with a wink and a nod.

Figuring out that you want to do something is easy. Figuring out why you want it and if it is actually what you want is a heck of a lot of work. Those that fall into the trap of thinking they can do whatever they want are the poseurs. Those that try to justify their laziness are the intellectual disengenous. Not everyone that remains can be in the "out there" group.

Sure that makes for a lot of 'messiahs' but no one said transcending your nature was easy.

You missed my point.People do not do what they think is wrong.If Killing is wrong,unless they are heathens.I will not kill those who believe in my God.If I do not believe in personal prosperity then stealing is not wrong.If i believe that speaking unkindly of my leader is punishable by flogging, then that flogging is not wrong.

If i have amoral code, not mater how strick, nor lose it is, if I make it. I will do no evil.At least I will do not evil in my eyes.Seeing as I am the only one to judge my actions.I am GOD.

Smarter men than I beleived that sex has always been a sin.It wasn't.In fact early chritains sometimes joined their roman bothers in orgies.Smarter men believed that Slvaery was a just action.Is it?Smarter people than me, beleived that the colour of your skin changed your abiltity to riase children.Do you think it does?Some people who were smarter than me knew that you would never need more than flopy disk to store data.I can count how many flopy disks i used on one hand.Some people who were smarter than me thought that the world clumbus argued about the wrold being round.He was argueing the world was 12,000 miles around, they were saying it was 24,000.They were right, he was wrong.

Being smart, does not preclude being wrong.

Ethecilly, teras is flawed.If I made my own laws,and ethics, would you think I would make a set in witch i would ever feel guilty about my own actions?

Not trying to quibble but digging your point out of whatever software you're using to translate to english is not exactly easy.

People do do things they think are wrong whether they believe they are evil or not. To keep this on track; we were speaking of making a moral code, not 'having one'. The difference between the two conditions quite likely accounts for a large percentage of why moral people do things they believe are wrong.

Not to get in the middle of the debate between yourself and Ashnod but you might want to take the time to actually read the Teragen book. Guilt is inapplicable. A relic of an antiquidated and widely misunderstood system of beliefs based on an older and less understood biological operating system.

So far this is not doing much more than illustrating the dividing line between human and transhuman thought. If you really want to get into the nitty gritty you're going to have to examine possibilities or stick with Star Trek humanism. Status quo is baseline thinking. Challenging all assumptions is first step transhumanism. The Teragen is nova social and (for want of a better phrase) quantum evolution in action. The fit will survive not because they are Terats but because they found something that works. The remainder will falter or never get beyond sight of the baseline end of the pool.

But that is because they are told this wrong.Teras, tell you to do what you believe, what you wish for.It tells you do what you think is right.

Yes followers of teras will feel guilt,but only because their morals would highly likely have I shall not kill,unless.I shall be nice,unless..The unless part indates that if you do not it,somethingwrose will happen.That is still doing good.

By the way wrong can be replaced with evil. At least is most cases.I wish I knew more Greek, but there is a word that means to mislead your goals. It is neither good nor bad, just is.

In the game there is no universally accepted moral code or parental figure looking down from above in judgement therefore no evil except as defined on a personal level. Anything else is baseline thought.

To a transhuman guilt is an institutionalized response. A relic. So is 'nice'. Your condition of "unless..." doesn't apply when there is no universally accepted moral code or divine parental unit sitting in judgement. You're attempting to dissect the morality of a thunderstorm.

I would point out the Aberrant is not a morality-based game. Nor, is it a religion-based game. No one faith is any more relevant than any other.

As a personal issue I have with the game, I believe that it portrays the "Teragen right/Utopia wrong" angle the same way WW has always bashed established authority and praised rebellion.
That being said, at this time, only the Teragen have the magic bullet that allows them to keep getting more and more powerful without real penalty.
The rest of us have to deal with the end at Taint 10.

An aside to the Juri court issue if I may:
With any arson case, the would look at previous criminal record, cause, likelyhood of repeating the incident, and damage.

Does Juri even have a previous criminal history? Not that I have heard about.

Cause? Well, she destroyed her domicile while exploring a "crack-pot" theory on nova evolution. She just happened to be right.

Repeat performance likely? Nope. She got what she wanted.

Damage? It was very limited, purposefully.

You have a first time offender with little likelyhood of repeating and little damage caused. That doesn't even warrant an Arson two charge.

I like Law and Order, thank you very much.

If Alabama lowers the boom on Juri, they risk all kinds of civil couner-suits. I smell plea bargain.
A far more likely outcome would be a few year probation, probably mitigated by public service.
Maybe some sort of federal deal, or even the Directive could step up. Give the govenor of Alabama a sweetheart deal to commute her sentance.

Juri could spend a few summers fighting wildfires out west as part of her sentance.
She could become a Directive operative.

I prefer to think of it has "Teragen=effective, Utopia=ineffective".

A lot of Terats are going to bite it anyway. Evolutions sucks for the losers.

Except for the fact that Teras isn't the answer for novakind, either. Not as far as Trinity teaches us, anyway.

Also, Chrysalis does not equate to understanding. Marcel Delormier (The Apostle) is one of the best examples of this, but alot of the second and third stage terats are chalked full of problems and contradictions.

Going to disagree with you here. I think gluttony is wrong and I eat like a pig on occasion. I think sloth is wrong and yet I am slothful far more often than I think is acceptable. I think losing my temper is wrong and yet I have lost my temper on many occasions. I think stealing is heinous as hell and at one point in my life I did steal something. I still feel guitly about it.

My morals do not dictate my actions strictly. They influence them, but they do not dictate them.

I prefer to think of it has "Teragen=effective, Utopia=ineffective".

Spoken like a true terat.

As I said, WW has Utopia do the dumbest things, on a continuous basis.
Sterilization? Now, who came up with that one? Remember, that was pre-Proteus, too.
Murder Slider because of it? Okay, Jenny was no brainiac, so if she could find out about it, how much longer does the conspiracy last? -sigh-
We have some bad PR, so we decide to terraform the Sahara ... against Anteus' advice? And burn out our novas doing it?
Lame.
Stupid.
Dumb, even by baseline standards.

The Teragen's faults are very managable by comparison.

Does anyone else feel we are arguing the same thing with Signy? I keep feeling like we say one thing and we got something else in response.

The sterilization plot did strike me as inhumanely stupid. In my game it wasn't so common. It happened, but not to everybody. It was aimed and less likely to be discovered.

Slider makes sense, not an uncommon reaction to black ops types when they get discovered. I always got from the stories that Proteus calmed down a bit after Slider simply because they realized that they they got caught too easily.

Teraforming over Anteaus' advice sounds totally reasonable to me. We have how much scientific evidence stating that industrial emmisions are causing massive damage to the environment? And how little does our government actually respond? The advice of scientists is happily overuled or ignored when it is politically beneficial to do so. Teraforming the Sahara was the shot in the arm that Utopia needed and Antaeus was being a pain in the tooshie.

I don't know how 'effective' the Teragen is presented as. What are their real accomplishments? Compare Teragen and Utopia

Utopia:

Cleans up the air and water.
Massively smacks down the mob.
Controls technology advances.
Has brought forth great tech.
Has an advisory seat on the Security Council.
Brought Ethiopia back from the brink.
Has imprisoned an unknown number of dangerous nova.


thats off the top of my head.

Teragen:

Killed mayor of Tampa.
Killed some ordinary folks.
Made a mass media spectacle.
Took over, secretly, a small American town.
Impressed a bunch of teenagers.
And are still a very small group with little worldwide influence.

Ashnod, you make a point that novas a smart.I maded a point.Novas are smart,so what? Smart doesn't make perfect.How many smart Americans were swept up into Mcarutherism?

teras in a code of ethics and morals with no laws that bind anything or anyone.It's main points are, you must be a nova, and you must act in your true self.(witch is to say stop acting like a human..Other than act anyway you want.)I am pointing out the moral,and ethics behind the teragen make more insane novas than taint does.It just so happens they do onto themselves.Nine out of Ten teragen members have both more taint and abberations than none teragen I have seen.

I'm not referring to that, Signy.

The teras does not take respoability for anything.Each teragen is their own law onto GOD.They are told to lead their own life,and they have more power than anything else in the world.You have a bunch of Greeko/Roman gods in the world who are just gaining their powers and you let them lose thinking they won't get drunk on their power?

Oh here is the real kicker, those hwo do things you don't like are pousers, those that do things you like are bothers and sisters.

Ashnod, I will ask you this..If I lead you to a room of switchs and told you that evrytime you touch one of them you will gain one million dollars, but everytime you flip a switch you will grow away from your friends and familyand indead all humans?That is save those that do the same.Oh as an added bonus you will never have ot fallow any law that you don't want to.tell me, can you honestly think of saying no without thinking that offer over?If you could, what sort of poeple would say yes to it?