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#80037 - 01/20/07 07:02 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Mr Fox]
Courier Offline
Nova

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Everywhere
Steve says,

"Ah. Let me guess, Joe would be the one in the police uniform? And also your third man, the one who got shot in the head?”

Steve waits for confirmation before continuing gently,

“We did win millions, but it wasn’t a double cross. I think Ralph decided we were dangerous, and he’d settle for a small taste for no risk. There’s an irony there, he died when the roof fell in.”

(To everyone else) “OK, mystery solved. What do we do?”
_________________________
Hauling things through the sky.

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#80050 - 01/21/07 03:38 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Mr Fox]
SkyLion Offline
Nova

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 1801
((Sorry for the delay. If you don't mind Fox, would you please assume that Cody has his lie detection going this whole time?))

Cody plays the bad cop, standing menacingly close behind their captives while Steve questions them.
Quote:
(To everyone else) “OK, mystery solved. What do we do?”


"They know enough to ID us...we can't let them live..."

*Which would be true if I wasn't going to wipe their memories. Perhaps I should psionically reform them. Turn them into homless shelter volunteers or something.*


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#80052 - 01/21/07 04:18 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: SkyLion]
Ziggurat Offline
Nova

Registered: 12/07/06
Posts: 511
Loc: Baghdad, Iraq & Texas USA
Omar was shaking his head. "It would not be right to kill them. They are our prisoners, and our responsibility. We should not harm them..they are no threat to us now." Omar looked a little irritated at the suggestion of killing or mindwiping them.

"Why do we care if they can identify us or not. It is not like anyone can do anything to us in this timeline. We are the most powerful beings to have ever exsisted on this earth." Omar gave the captive man a look of warning. "Besides, who would believe them anyways."
_________________________
A man of character will make himself worthy of any position he is given. -Mahatma Gandhi

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#80053 - 01/21/07 04:23 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: SkyLion]
Isabel Mendoza Offline
Baseline

Registered: 10/14/06
Posts: 31
Originally Posted By: SkyLion


*Which would be true if I wasn't going to wipe their memories. Perhaps I should psionically reform them. Turn them into homless shelter volunteers or something.*



Isabel's staying away from the interrogation, only listening to what's being said with half an ear, but when Cody says that, she frowns, and answers through the link, sounding slightly annoyed.

<You can't do that. Make the amnesia if you must, but you can't just make them into different people. Killing them would be better than that.>

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#80054 - 01/21/07 05:39 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Isabel Mendoza]
Courier Offline
Nova

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Everywhere
Steve sighs,

(Over the link) *Please don't mention other timelines or other Earths in front of them again.*

(Outloud) "And they are guilty of murder at least three times over. If the local police know enough to track them they'll end up in jail. As for the rest... well... the risk of them being able to do anything is very small. I suspect we could drop them off and be done with it."

(Over the link) *Well, dropping them off with the last hour's memories wiped. Say, everything after that guy pulled the trigger on the rocket.*
_________________________
Hauling things through the sky.

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#80055 - 01/21/07 06:00 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Courier]
Mr Fox Moderator Offline
Nova

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 2715
Loc: Texas
Morgan says over the link, "I agree with Isabel, if we are leaving it won't matter. If we are staying, then I think Cody should wipe their memories of the last 24 hours, but not their whole minds. If we are staying just long enough to turn that money into precious metals and gems then it won't matter either. Just leave them in a room and have Lorean seal it until we are ready to leave or drop them off in a small town in Argentina or Brazil. Take them at least a week to get home and by then we'll be long gone.

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#80056 - 01/21/07 06:21 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Mr Fox]
Gregory Offline
Nova

Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: New England
Over the link *I have no problem giving them amnesia. Who they are will still be intact. I say we wipe all memory of us from their minds, from the moment they awoke here. That way it won't matter what we say or tell them. Then we let the police take care of the rest.
_________________________
Adversity has the effect of eliciting talents which in prosperous circumstances would have lain dormant -Horace

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#80057 - 01/21/07 06:22 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Gregory]
Ziggurat Offline
Nova

Registered: 12/07/06
Posts: 511
Loc: Baghdad, Iraq & Texas USA
That is supposed to be me
_________________________
A man of character will make himself worthy of any position he is given. -Mahatma Gandhi

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#80078 - 01/22/07 10:42 AM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Mr Fox]
Courier Offline
Nova

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Everywhere
Steve glances at each of the novas in turn then back at the baselines. He says, more to the novas (and Lorean) rather than the baselines,

“Let me point out until today I made my living unraveling loose ends. Lots of them involved people who thought it wouldn’t make a difference. However, we seem to have a consensus. It’s 2am, it’s been a long day. Several of you look like you need some sleep. Let’s seal them into a room and deal with them in the morning. I’m going to stay up talking with Lorean, unpacking things, and otherwise getting organized.”

(To the baselines) “You two will be given a mild case of amnesia and returned to Vegas. Congratulations, that’s better than being given a pound of coke and dropped into a Turkish prison, and much better than being dropped a few miles out into the ocean. Keep that in mind when thinking about trying to escape.”

(Assuming no one stops him, Steve will ask Lorean to create a room and take them to it and see that the room is sealed.)
_________________________
Hauling things through the sky.

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#80079 - 01/22/07 11:23 AM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Courier]
Mr Fox Moderator Offline
Nova

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 2715
Loc: Texas
Lorean obliges and creates a room that they stand no chance of escaping. Once inside she tells you that she will actively monitor them and call you if there is any chance they might escape. The crooks wisely keep their mouths shut during this whole process.

Meanwhile, those who need it head to bed, those who wish to stay up and join the conversation with Lorean do so. Morgan for one heads to his rooms to get a couple hours of sleep since he has used up so much juice.

Lorean waits for Steve to begin asking his questions, but will relay the conversation to anyone that wants to be involved without invading Steve's rooms, that is if he doesn't mind others being invovled. She also offers to record the conversation for later playback for anyone that doesn't want to join now but still wants to know what is said.

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#80082 - 01/22/07 12:39 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Mr Fox]
Courier Offline
Nova

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Everywhere
Originally Posted By: Mr Fox
She also offers to record the conversation for later playback for anyone that doesn't want to join now but still wants to know what is said.
"Thank you."

Steve pauses for a moment to collect his thoughts, then he sits down with a pad of paper and a pen and his hand blurs as he writes down the following:

Medical Information:
Does Lorean have a cure for taint or know of one?
What does Lorean know of novas in general? How they are created, their medical needs, disorders, their history, etc.
What medical information exists in Lorean’s databanks? Cure for AIDS, etc.
Does the ship have a medical Bay? Medical stores? How much human assistance does Lorean require to use it?

Ship Maintenance Information:
Does Lorean know enough about her own tech base to build another ship?
How many years or centuries more advanced is Lorean? I.e. how far into the future of the current timeline would we have to go?
Does Lorean require someone to run the hydroponics bay, or can she do so herself?
Does Lorean require someone to run the kitchen, or can she do so herself?
Does a machine shop exist? Does Lorean require someone to run a machine shop, or can she do so herself?
Requiring a full telepath for using the car is potentially risky, are their alternatives? ((I was thinking of a variant on the psy-link power that would let you run ship technology)).

History Databanks
How much history does Lorean know of our current timeline? Other timelines? All timelines?
Does this knowledge extend to the future?
Does Lorean have an idea for what will happen to humanity over the next 100K years?
Does the ship know of aliens and their level of hostility and technology?


Finally Steve stops and holds up the notepad and says,

"Lorean, can you read this? Could you please address each point in turn?"
_________________________
Hauling things through the sky.

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#80095 - 01/22/07 06:31 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Courier]
Mr Fox Moderator Offline
Nova

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 2715
Loc: Texas
Lorean responds, "Yes, I can read your notes, and you certainly have lots of questions." As she speaks a viewscreen appears on the wall and you see Lorean looking at you. "As I expect the others will wish to know the responses as well, would you mind if I either open a link with them as I answer or record our conversation for later playback?"

Quote:
Medical Information:
Does Lorean have a cure for taint or know of one?
What does Lorean know of novas in general? How they are created, their medical needs, disorders, their history, etc.
What medical information exists in Lorean’s databanks? Cure for AIDS, etc.
Does the ship have a medical Bay? Medical stores? How much human assistance does Lorean require to use it?


Answers to your medical questions:
The only cure I know of for taint is to not have a node. Even then it is still possible to build up taint if you maxx your abilities too often. I know that it is possible to have then node distributed throughout the body, but I do not know of how you would go about making such a change.

I know that Novas are a result of a mutation in the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Novas have occasionally manifested for the last 1500 years, but until the last century such events were extremely rare. Also, novas erupting before 1998 were generally weaker than modern novas. Nova medical needs differ little from Baselines, to use the common phrase for Homo Sapiens. Generally the drugs necessary to effect novas then to be much stronger. I can create medical facilities at need, however, I do not carry any surgical or medical instruments, nor could I operate them independently.

I have the medical texts on file right up to the moment of our departure from your timeline which does contain cures for most forms of cancer and treatments and vaccines for Aids. Currently the only timelines I have scanned are your original timeline, the Nova timeline without the Watchers and this one. The timeline we are presently in does not have cures as advanced as the ones in my medical files.

Quote:
Ship Maintenance Information:
Does Lorean know enough about her own tech base to build another ship?
How many years or centuries more advanced is Lorean? I.e. how far into the future of the current timeline would we have to go?
Does Lorean require someone to run the hydroponics bay, or can she do so herself?
Does Lorean require someone to run the kitchen, or can she do so herself?
Does a machine shop exist? Does Lorean require someone to run a machine shop, or can she do so herself?
Requiring a full telepath for using the car is potentially risky, are their alternatives? ((I was thinking of a variant on the psy-link power that would let you run ship technology)).


I understand my own technology base, but I would not be able to build another. I am a composite being, part technology part living tissue, and I operate much like a nova using quantum as my powersource. I can however, create a minor non-intelligent clone which is the craft Cody has bonded with. With time and expenditure of a great deal of quantum I might be able to create another clone, but it would require quite a bit of effort and direct assistence from one of you to whom the craft would be bonded. Also, it would require that the bonding individual be a telepath. The current craft could be run by voice commands in an emergency by one of you, however it is bonded to Cody as the first telepath to pilot her.

This current timeline is unlikely to produce 'technology' at my level for well over 2000 years if ever. In a timeline which already contains novas it would be possible but unlikely earlier than 500 years into the future.

Running the Hydroponics bay will require one person. Assuming you would rather not cook your own meals, I would suggest two people to run your kitchen. Cleaning and laundry would require another, and I would also suggest one more to handle organization and personal tasks you might need done for a total compliment of five. You could certainly bring more than five aboard without straining resources if you choose, but five would be the minimum.

I can configure space for a machine shop, but I do not have one now nor do I have the equipment. Also, you would need someone to run such a shop.


Quote:
History Databanks
How much history does Lorean know of our current timeline? Other timelines? All timelines?
Does this knowledge extend to the future?
Does Lorean have an idea for what will happen to humanity over the next 100K years?
Does the ship know of aliens and their level of hostility and technology?



Again, I am only familiar with three timelines currently, which are the ones I have visited.

My knowledge does not extend to the future, other than to know that in your home timeline and presumeably the other nova timeline we were in briefly, will experience a devastating war between novas and baselines.

I do not have any foreknowledge of the future in any timelines other than what I have just stated about the aberrant war.

As for your final question." Lorean's face darkens on the screen with anger. "Yes, alien races do exist. It was a group of alien who killed Luthien, the personality that previously inhabited my body. I do not know where they came from nor did the Watchers give me much data about them when they awakened me in my current existence. However, I do know that the aliens were exploring and were rather xenophobic. They had never encountered other seintient life before. When they entered the Sol system, Luthien sent out messages that the system was inhabited and under her protection. They advanced to Iapetus ignoring her warnings. When they opened fire, she defended herself and destroyed their entire fleet, but only by sacrificing herself. That is what caused the black stain across most of the surface of the moon. All that was left of her was a broken shell. When the Watchers returned and discovered her dead, they repaired her body and entombed her in the chamber under Iapetus where you found me. Apparently they also created within her body the seed of personality that became me, which was triggered by your arrival."

Lorean's image smiles sadly at you, "I do thank you for awakening me. It is hard thing to know that I exist because of a contingency plan."

"I do not know specifically of other aliens, but given that one exists, it is likely that over the vast stretches of the universe, many others must exist as well. I hope that has answered all your questions, if you have more feel free to ask." With that the space on the wall fades away until you can no longer see the viewscreen at all.

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#80096 - 01/22/07 07:47 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Mr Fox]
Ziggurat Offline
Nova

Registered: 12/07/06
Posts: 511
Loc: Baghdad, Iraq & Texas USA
Omar listens to Lorean explain the answers to the questons. It looks like we will need to hire specialists to run the mundane aspects of this place. It shouldn't be too hard to find people willing to come aboard.

Over the link to the others *I think we need to look into hiring people to work the kitchen, machine shops, and other areas. How do we go about getting these people, and who wants to do the hiring? I have a couple of ideas of how, but I think we need to talk about it first.
_________________________
A man of character will make himself worthy of any position he is given. -Mahatma Gandhi

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#80110 - 01/23/07 11:02 AM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Mr Fox]
Courier Offline
Nova

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Everywhere
Originally Posted By: Mr Fox
Lorean responds, "Yes, I can read your notes, and you certainly have lots of questions."
Steve shrugs and replies,

“It’s what I do. Go ahead and record or link this to them. It will save time.”

Steve listens intently, nodding at several points, and making notes ((in Blue)), and occasionally comments.

Steve’s Notebook:
Historical Fact or Learned via scanning the timeline’s history?
Medical bay, Medical Supplies, Nova Drugs… Morgan partly counters need for. No cure for taint.
Knowledge largely limited to what is scanned from planet. Could go public, offer to trade cures for what we need. Gov under much pressure if known cures exist.

Personnel, baseline(?), will be an issue. Cook x2, Clean/Maid, Overseer, Hydroponics.
Machine shop.
Nova / Baseline War!!!
Aliens… xenophobic. Close by? Or located by scanning for technology?

Originally Posted By: Mr Fox
I can configure space for a machine shop, but I do not have one now nor do I have the equipment. Also, you would need someone to run such a shop.
Steve comments, “I could run it. The Quantum genii turned small boyhood mechanical skills and shop class into something more like professional engineering.”

Originally Posted By: Mr Fox
Lorean's image smiles sadly at you, "I do thank you for awakening me. It is hard thing to know that I exist because of a contingency plan."
Steve gives a quiet grunt and says with sympathy,

“Lorean, I exist because my mother got drunk in a bar. We are what we choose to be.”

Originally Posted By: Mr Fox
"...I hope that has answered all your questions, if you have more feel free to ask." With that the space on the wall fades away until you can no longer see the viewscreen at all.
Steve says,

“Thank you.”
_________________________
Hauling things through the sky.

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#80119 - 01/23/07 02:14 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Courier]
Courier Offline
Nova

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Everywhere
Steve asks,

"Lorean, what do you know about this Nova Baseline war? Why will it happen? Can it be avoided? What will be the outcome?"
_________________________
Hauling things through the sky.

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#80121 - 01/23/07 02:50 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Courier]
Mr Fox Moderator Offline
Nova

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 2715
Loc: Texas
"I only know that the Watchers felt that it was inevitable and were saddened that it would take place."

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#80132 - 01/23/07 09:30 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Mr Fox]
SkyLion Offline
Nova

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 1801
Quote:
Omar was shaking his head. "It would not be right to kill them. They are our prisoners, and our responsibility. We should not harm them..they are no threat to us now." Omar looked a little irritated at the suggestion of killing or mindwiping them.

*Um...Omar...you are *really* not helping me play the bad cop here...If you want to stay and watch, do me a favor and go back to looking scary big guy. Otherwise, let the professinal investigators do our work. Besides, that was why I told you over the link that I wasn't going to kill them...I just want them to *think* their lives are in danger...*
Quote:
<You can't do that. Make the amnesia if you must, but you can't just make them into different people. Killing them would be better than that.>

*Why shouldn't I? Given their freedom they will likely go right back to a criminal lifestyle...the rewards are obviously too tempting to them. And despite what this man is saying out of fear, they had an armed rocket launcher. Even if they did intend for noone to get hurt, they wouldn't have hesitated had they known how much of a thrwat we were...the man was aiming at the front door Isabel, not the roof, and not the lawn. Also we were in a residential area...collateral damage is almost unavoidable. Why let them go back to a life of crime when I can make them into something beneficial for society...I can even make it so they like their new roles, and it saves taxpayer dollars that would otherwise be wasted on incarcerating them...*
Quote:
*Please don't mention other timelines or other Earths in front of them again.*

*Ditto. *Sigh* Now we are going to *have* to mindwipe them.*
Quote:
“Let me point out until today I made my living unraveling loose ends. Lots of them involved people who thought it wouldn’t make a difference. However, we seem to have a consensus. It’s 2am, it’s been a long day."

When the time comes to drop them off, Cody will erase all events after the rocket launcher went off. His telepathic meddling will leave them all with brutal headaches when they come to. He will also implant false memories that the rocket malfunctioned and blew up almost in their faces. Finally he will give them a powerful post-hypnotic suggestion that they very well could have died back there. They are lucky to be alive and want to rethink their choices...
Quote:
Does Lorean have an idea for what will happen to humanity over the next 100K years?

Cody responds over the link to Steve but makes the commentary available to anyone who is awake/interested.

*Steve... What's the point of asking about what will happen in the future? From my understanding of what Lorean has told us, there are infinite possible outcomes and anything we do to change time merely shifts us to a different branch. This is why I suggested we all meet and discuss what we wanted out of life and how that has changed now. It makes no sense to go and stop Hitler, since there are already infinite timelines where he succeeds or doesn't or is never born, or becomes an opera singer...far less work to just go after what we really want directly...But you are right, we are all tired and it has been an intense couple of days. Why not discuss things over breakfast?*
Quote:
The current craft could be run by voice commands in an emergency by one of you, however it is bonded to Cody as the first telepath to pilot her.

*Lorean, the craft is alive? I was just going to call it...her?...The Cruiser. I like the sound of that but does..."she" deserve a name as you do? If you made a "he" craft, could they reproduce?*
Quote:
"I only know that the Watchers felt that it was inevitable and were saddened that it would take place."

*Likewise, I am sure there are many timelines where such a thing is *not* inevitable. Now that we have infinity to choose from we need to pick our battles, so to speak.*

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#80135 - 01/23/07 10:03 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: SkyLion]
Courier Offline
Nova

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Everywhere
Originally Posted By: SkyLion
*Why shouldn't I? Given their freedom they will likely go right back to a criminal lifestyle...the rewards are obviously too tempting to them. And despite what this man is saying out of fear, they had an armed rocket launcher. Even if they did intend for no one to get hurt, they wouldn't have hesitated had they known how much of a threat we were...the man was aiming at the front door Isabel, not the roof, and not the lawn. Also we were in a residential area...collateral damage is almost unavoidable. Why let them go back to a life of crime when I can make them into something beneficial for society...I can even make it so they like their new roles, and it saves taxpayer dollars that would otherwise be wasted on incarcerating them...*
Steve sends back,

*It would take longer to discuss this than we have right now. Sounds like another conversation for tomorrow, but for now please don’t. It would cause more problems than it would solve.*
_________________________
Hauling things through the sky.

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#80137 - 01/23/07 10:31 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Courier]
Mr Fox Moderator Offline
Nova

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 2715
Loc: Texas
Lorean responds to Cody. "I call the craft a she only in the sense that ships are referred to as she in most western cultures. The craft is not intelligent so it is up to you if you wish to give it a name, and no they could not reproduce." Lorean gives a small laugh at this last comment.

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#80141 - 01/24/07 12:13 AM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Mr Fox]
Mr Fox Moderator Offline
Nova

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 2715
Loc: Texas
Steve and Cody take a quick trip down to the planet and hit a grocery store for enough supplies for a big breakfast and possibly a lunch too if the discussions go too long. They make the trip without incident and come back loaded with several bags of goodies.

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#80148 - 01/24/07 10:26 AM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Mr Fox]
Andrew Murphy Offline
Nova

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 1245
Carter works up a huge breakfast for everybody. Pancakes, French toast, eggs in a mutitude of varietys, fresh fruit, bacon, ham, susage, etc. He takes requests and tries to make whatever everybody feels like. The result is a massive commotion in the galley and a mess that would need a super fast nova to clean if Lorean wasn't able to do so for them.

As they sit around the dinning table and fill themselves Carter brings up the topic of their two prisoners, "So ... I've been thinking. I'm in agreement with Cody, why shouldn't we adjust these guys before sending them back? We have the ability to do so and frankly even I stand on higher moral ground than they do ... Besides, you guys remember what that guy Divis Mal said. We novas shouldn't be holding ourselves to baseline morality and ethics, they don't work for us. Baselines put people into prison because that is all they can do to assure the common peace."

He shovels another massive spoonfull of eggs scrabled with hash, onions, peppers, mushroom and cheese intoo his mouth and looks pointedly at the others before continuing. "I realize that my past deeds ... hell my current deeds are less than moral from the human point of view. But well, I'm more than human, and there's no human authority which has the power to hold me to their standards. You all are sitting in the same boat more or less. We are like gods among the people of these timelines. I'm not suggesting that we set ourselves up as gods mind you, though it would be fun, but that we simply reason on our own what is right for us to do."
_________________________
That's right; one can make all kinds of explosives using simple household items... If one were so inclined.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
theplourde - Dr. Raphael Bradford - Callum Uallas

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#80149 - 01/24/07 10:47 AM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Andrew Murphy]
Mr Fox Moderator Offline
Nova

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 2715
Loc: Texas
Morgan sops up syrup with a biscuit and devours it as he listens to Carter. Licking a drip of the sugary liquid off his finger he responds, "Ya know that philosophy didn't exactly originate with that Mal fellow. It's been around among baselines for at least 2000 years. Only thing that has changed is the excuse of being novas. The core of the idea though, is that people should act according to their own judgement and not be slave to the dictates of society."

He takes a large swallow of milk and continues, "I can't say as I diagree with that. Using our own judgement is all that we can really do anyway, and I've always thought that giving way in your judgement to follow the masses is a crutch for those that can't think for themselves anyway. Now that we are novas and adrift among timelines where there is no one that can impose their will on us makes it even more important that we exercise our own judgement."
Addressing his final statement to Cody, "That being said, I don't have any problem with you erasing memories of us in these guys, but I don't think you should change their personalities. I have to draw the line at usurping anyones freewill."

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#80150 - 01/24/07 10:59 AM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Andrew Murphy]
Courier Offline
Nova

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Everywhere
Steve eats lightly for a baseline, very lightly for a nova, more out of habit than any active desire to pretend he’s a baseline.

Steve says lightly,

“If we are reprogramming people, we might as well grab some attractive women and make some sex toys while we are at it.”

“More seriously, Carter, you said that “even you stand on a higher moral ground”, so… what exactly would be wrong with tampering with you, and are you giving us permission to do so?”

“Some of what Mal said holds water, many of the baseline laws simply don’t apply. The power Clone makes even the laws of murder a problem. Teleport and Warp make even national boundaries problematic. But it’s a big jump from some-of-them-don’t-apply to there-are-no-laws-and-no-morality. The closest analogy to reprogramming someone is either murder, i.e. death of personality, or rape, forcing your will on someone else.”

“I’m willing to kill them if we have to, for that matter, I did kill mine. But we don’t need to do this, they aren’t our problem. Let them benefit or suffer from their choices, and let society benefit or suffer from tolerating them.”
_________________________
Hauling things through the sky.

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#80152 - 01/24/07 11:25 AM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Courier]
Andrew Murphy Offline
Nova

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 1245
Carter waits for Steve to finish before responding, "No I am not inviting you to mess around in my head. My point is that while I have a very dim view of morals and ethics as baseline society has put forth I am still standing on higher ground than these guys.

"I've killed one person in my life, in slef defence, it wasn't even a week ago and frankly I'm still trying to get a grip on that. Last night these guys tried to break into our vehicle and jack our money. You guys responded with deadly force and frankly I'm so sure that you can claim to have higher moral authority than I right now.

"These people are killers flat out. If we memory wipe them how long before they do something like this again and take another life? I'm not proposing we kill them, nor that we wipe their minds clean and make them figure skaters. Clear their memories, fine. Put up an interdiction against violence, fine. Heck make it so they get physically ill if they touch a weapon. Leave the rest of them intact. "

Carter takes another spoonful of his food and drops it on his plate, "Crap I'm not even hungry now ..." He looks at the others, anger and sadness on his face.

"I don't know about you guys but I didn't sign up for this, I had a nice easy life that worked for me. I'd rather the bastards who built Lorean just wiped my memories of the past couple of weeks and dropped me back home. Instead I'll never see my freinds again, never see my girl. I've got all the power in a dozen or more universes and all I really want is the status quo back." Carter gets up and throws his napkin down and storms out of the room.
_________________________
That's right; one can make all kinds of explosives using simple household items... If one were so inclined.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
theplourde - Dr. Raphael Bradford - Callum Uallas

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#80154 - 01/24/07 11:45 AM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Andrew Murphy]
Mr Fox Moderator Offline
Nova

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 2715
Loc: Texas
Lorean quietly asks to speak. "I've scanned all records for things related to the current discussion and found one interesting parrell." She displays a holographic image of the Babylon 5 space station. "There was a fictional TV show set in a future where Telepaths were part of the human race. In that show the telepaths are integrated into the judicial system. Capital crimes such as serial killing are punishable by 'death of personality'. In essence the serial killer's mind is completely wiped clean and a new personality is implanted, one that is dedicated to benefiting society. That person then spends the rest of their lives attoning for the crimes that that were commited. I offer no judgement on this, but as a new personality in an old body, I see this as being a valid option for treating those who would choose to harm others without regret."

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#80155 - 01/24/07 12:03 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Andrew Murphy]
Ziggurat Offline
Nova

Registered: 12/07/06
Posts: 511
Loc: Baghdad, Iraq & Texas USA
Omar listens patiently to the others, shoveling large quantities of egg and sausage into his mouth. After eating a whole orange, in one bite, Omar looks up, only to see Carter get up and leave the room. "Wait Carter!... Hear what I have to say."

"What if we have them do penance" Omar said with a serious look on his face. "They may be killers now, but I don't believe they intended to be so. The man said they did not want to kill anyone. I believe them. That means that they were motivated by Mammon, and his lure of easy money."

Omar chomped down another sausage. "We can have them stay here, and work off their crimes. After a few years of hard work, in which they have shown they are trustworthy and changed men, we will pay them some absurd sum of money. Hopefully, they will have been rehabilitated. In the meantime, we can tell them that if they betray our trust, steal, or harm anyone while doing penance, we will toss them out the airlock. At least these two will have an opportunity for redemption."

Omar was skeptical that the others would go along. He knew that this was the right thing to do, because removing knowledge of their guilt from them, will not change God's knowledge of their guilt. Only through absolution would their souls have any hope of saving.

Looking towards Carter. "Besides, I have killed too, and it is difficult to deal with. I would seek forgiveness and absolution from those I killed...if it was possible. Maybe by helping these two save themselves, we can save a little of ourselves in the process."
_________________________
A man of character will make himself worthy of any position he is given. -Mahatma Gandhi

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#80160 - 01/24/07 02:09 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Ziggurat]
Courier Offline
Nova

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Everywhere
Steve frowns for a moment at Omar’s suggestion and considers it. Obviously this was an option he hadn’t considered.

Then he says,

“Omar? Granted, I’m making assumptions here that may not be correct, but I’m not sure they want to be saved. The problem isn’t that they are killers, half the people in this room are ex-military. But while it’s possible these were otherwise normal guys who were tempted by our pile of money, I think it likely they are professional criminals. Ralph was a Pro, these are his more violent associates. The ones you call when you want someone beaten up and shot.”

“And I don’t mean that they simply operate outside the law. When I was FBI I spent a lot of time hunting people like this, I think they’re predators, pure and simple. We’d have to watch them every moment, we don’t have jobs for them, and even if we did, if they had a solid work ethic they’d have real jobs. I think they'd view themselves as slaves and resent the heck out of us.”

Steve gives an embarrassed grin,

“I know my prejudices are showing, and who knows, maybe I'm wrong or they really are what we are looking for. I'm willing to be convinced. But yesterday I killed their friend. As someone who isn’t bulletproof, I’m hesitant to turn my back on them.”
_________________________
Hauling things through the sky.

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#80165 - 01/24/07 03:38 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: Courier]
SkyLion Offline
Nova

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 1801
Cody eats well but not as much as many Novas. Eggs benedict, a plate of seasoned potatoes and a tall glass of OJ provide enough Glucose for his enhanced mind.

After listening to the others go on for a bit, Cody finally decides to make his opinion known.

"Im with Steve on this one. No way am I going to trust hired thugs to cook my food, unless I gave them a *total* personality makeover. However I also disagree that we should just abdicate our responsibility and say "Let society deal with it." We have an opportunity to do something and I am inclined to take it. And since I am the one who has to do it I will use my judgement. Just so you all know Im not going to do anything too extreme. I'll let them keep their freewill but influnece them heavily to make better choices..."

"What I have in mind is this. They will remember a group of people who look nothing like us racing out the door to protect our fortune. The Rocket goes off but it malfunctions blowing up in their faces and killing their third partner. They will come to with a brutal splitting headache and a newfound sense of appreciation for life. I will leave them with the suggestion that they want to rethink their choices reinforced by nightmares of violent ends and cruel imprisonment. Will that satisfy everyone?"


((pending response))

"Now. I think we should all open up about ourselves. What we wanted from life. What we've lost and what it will take for us to find fullfillment again. Carter, it shouldn't be too hard to reestablish yourself...If you want we can find a suitable timeline, drop you off and I can indeed wipe your memories. Or maybe Lorean has a way of asking the Watcher's to do the same thing. Its your call buddy."

"Anyway, I suppose I should start, since Im the one suggesting it. I never really knew what I wanted until I met Courier here. he got me turned onto mysteries and problem solving...the kinds of things that give a sense of purpose to the chaos of life...making sense out of the senseless if you will. Back home, we had an agency and we were starting to do pretty well for ourselves, until we bit off more than we could chew."
Remembering his food he takes another bite, savoring the buttery Hollandaise sauce. "Going back to simple detectective work just doesn't seem to cut it though anymore. More than anything else, I feel a sense of wonder and curiosiity. Of course I never had the ties that some of you had cut and my best friend is right here with me, so I guess in a way I got lucky. Usually happens when Steve is around..."

"But yeah...Now that we are here we have a chance to explore all the great unsolved mysteries...all the things we ever wanted to know about. I mean...conquest doesn't mean as much once resources don't matter anymore...its too small minded. On the other hand, what is our responsibility now? Now that we know that all timelines exist simultaneously, all choices are equal. Trying to be heroes is more an exercise in ego-stroking when you know that just a timeline over, the bad guy wins..."

"So yeah, thats my vote...the satisfaction of intellectual curiosity."

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#80169 - 01/24/07 04:41 PM Re: Chapter 2: Different Roads [Re: SkyLion]
Isabel Mendoza Offline
Baseline

Registered: 10/14/06
Posts: 31
"It is not that simple," Isabel shakes her head, "and you don't understand. People see things differently. Just because you have power, does not mean you have... better sight. If everything that was considered not proper, not beautiful, had been destroyed, Picasso would not be remembered today. I am an artist, I know... beauty, is in the pieces that do not fit. Even God does not change people with His power, and He surely has better sight than you."

She frowns slightly after the small speech, certainly the most words any of the people present have ever heard Isabel string together, probably wondering if her meaning would be understood, and passes hesitantly onto the next question, with a rather sad, almost nostalgic tone.

"As for I... never mind, I want what I always wanted. To paint, and to watch the universes, so they can be painted."

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