Thanks for the defense Revenant.

I have no tolerance for rapists. That just pisses me off. I know, I know, I've killed shitloads of people but rape bugs me, stupid eh? But hey, everyone has their quirks.

Time?

Place?

No.

Ms. Bluecorn: You misunderstand my intent. I do very much intend on moving the tribes and nations forward. However remembering our past is also what I want, treasuring our culture is what I want. We can continue to evolve as a culture and still cherish our heritage.

Revenant: Your records say I raped Carver? Interesting records, I do not recall being convicted or even charged. I humbly admit I acted aggressively and inappropriately to her and I really do not have an excuse for that but we both moved past it and have gone our separate ways in life. I would appreciate you not insinuating something that simply did not happen. I think we have enough mutual respect for one another that you can at least acknowledge that you misspoke.

Trooper: It is interesting you say that. I wonder how many others could say that the taking of life is less outraging or more tolerable than the act of rape. Both seem to be a violation of another being yet to me the act of taking the very life from someone seems to have greater impact. Although I am speaking from my own perspective I do admit. I am sure their are many who would say they would rather die than be violated in such a manner. Which might also go back to Machina's comment about conquest, no greater achievement short of destroying your enemy than breaking them correct? I would appreciate your thoughts as an Elite on that.

Why would you ask for his thoughts on killing versus raping when he just gave them to you? I realize I've been off in the deep blue for a while but what's the name of this dance?

When you're dead... You are dead. Sans life. Pushing up the daisies. Shuffled off the mortal coil. In the garden of stone. Remaindered. Out of immortality. In the reaper's paradise. Permanently retired beneath the shade tree. In the place people are dying to get into. All of which are ways of saying the debts are zeroed and all responsibilities discharged. For the deceased anyway. You got me there. But so what?

Okay. Here's Lakota elder number 2 bringing up rape stats on the reservation. Lakota elder number 1 is a behemoth looking like the prize exhibit at the Mythological Zoo and suppose to be the god in residence for the Lakotas. So what's the deal? Why are Lakotas getting raped when they have an authority figure like that hanging around?

Words like "wasicu" don't bother me. Sticks and stones.

Rape is not an uncommon crime. If we broke down the statistics, would it still be all right for us to cry foul that because 4 Latino women were raped in a given week in a particular region, they have to be racially motivated? What about black women? Asian? White? Please. At what point does it become okay to close your eyes to the world around you and convince yourself you're the only person of value there?

Revenant:

1. I'm not a police officer. I don't have access to your records, or those of Machina, or anyone else. I don't know you except for what you post here and your brief appearance at last year's PowWow. I have not been so rude as to enter your mind to see what the truth of you may be. So to be blunt, I had nothing to go from other than your own crude comments.

2. Wakinyan did not rape Carver. To my knowledge - and I know his mind very, very well - Wakinyan has never raped anyone. Has he been promiscuous? Certainly, but always in a consentual manner.

Velvet:

There is a consistant pattern of rape of Native American women by white men in and around reservations. It is a pattern that is distinct and sharply elevated from the demographics of rape in the general population. It also has a significantly higher chance of going unpunished than does rape in the general population.

I have not closed my eyes to the world around me, but neither do I keep them so wide and distant as to ignore the plight of my own people.

I'm dropping out of this conversation before I lose all respect for you, and/or say something I can't take back.

I hope one day you'll join the rest of the world, but no one can force you to do so.

I know you dropped out of the conversation but I wanted to answer you. No its not uncommon. There are places and times it is or at least was very common. The Sudan several years ago comes to mind. But its not the grubber thirst for rape that's puzzling me.

If I was a tribal elder and somebody raped one of mine then that poor rat bastard's fate is sealed. He's got three things to look forward to. Misery agony and denial of death. I don't apologize for this. I can't understand anyone being in that position and not putting a rapist into the center of all circles of hell.

WHY! Why do you defend him Blinx? I made a joke like this about you not to long back in a different thread and there was no peep from him!

I say something vulgar and offensive about PW and he wants to call me out?

Funny, where was your White Knight when I talking about wreckin' a head board with you beneath me?

(offer still stands by the way. )

Fine, he still hasn't told me when and where. You have until then to change his mind. I respect what you've done for me enough to grant you at least that courtesy (small as it is). But know this: If he chooses to stand tall against me, then it was his decision to do so. Since he and I don't have any bad blood between us, rest assured, I'll not kill him.

He'll wish he was, but he'll very much alive.

I can't back down, I just can't. I don't expect anyone to understand, but I don't back down someone calls me out.

Shit, I wish you did. They use a lot of big words in them, you could probably help me translate WTF they say.

"Assault With Intent To Do Great Bodily Hamr Less Than Murder" WTF... why can't they just say "He kicked the shit outta Santa Clause!"



Yeah, but it's not like you've invited me over for dinner either. I just assumed you hated me cuz of what I did to your husband.



This is obvious. You're still around.



You can fix that any time squaw. I can be anywhere in the US in only a few hours.




If it helps you to sleep at night, keep on believing that.

I'm not defending him. This fight which you two want to have is idiotic. You're both behaving like cavemen. Back down, okay?Don't go there. Just. . . don't.

Okay, in the ranking of world class rat bastards you win. I can't believe you kicked the shit outta the jolly fat elf.

There is this one little thing I was wondering about though. Nah, never mind. The answer will come apparent soon enough.

"None is so blind, as he who will not see."

I was told that by another elder once shortly before I went to the Rashoud facility for training, and it stuck with me.

You can read minds, Ptesan-Wi. So when you find the bastards, turn them into the tribal police. If you have tribal police on your reservation.

By the way, do you have another name? Calling yourself the White Buffalo Woman is asking for trouble.

Why not? I would have. Motherfucker gave me nothing but clothes one year.

Bastard.

As you have been in his mind, then I'm sure that you can answer a question I've had for a while.

Why did he abduct me to a place I couldn't easily escape from and nearly kill me, and not rape me? I mean, I'm taking everyone's word at that - the healing that Neil performed (thanks again, my friend!) would have healed tears and the like, and Alchemist was too busy reconstructing my chest to worry about other parts of me. I'd alwasy assumed that I'd damaged him too much to perform, or it was the shock of nearly killing me that made him back down? Can you tell me which it was?

And as a final point, the game of naked cat and mouse he "entertained" me with on my first stay in the cave was not consentual (as was my arrival at the cave), and was certainly viewed as sexual. So you can understand why I'm troubled by your total defense of him, can't you?

Neil, do you think anything good could come form this?

Neil, do not do this thing. There is no need, and no good can come of it.

Esther, my name is Ptesan-Wi, because that is who I am: to the Lakota, to my mate, and to myself. If you want, you may call me Thoughtwave, a name which was once my own, but it is not truly who I am today.

Carver, my mate has - or had, to be more precise - the world's worst concept of how to "help" others, and of what others want. His conflict with you is a grand example; his conflict with Revenant is another. Said concept was the unfortunate amalgam of animal instinct and environment. As near as I have been able to tell from his thoughts, he wished to present you with physical challenge, because he thought that was what you wanted and needed. Much as a cat at what it considers play can cause significant harm to something that does not, he caused grevious harm to you without fully understanding the significance of his actions at the time.

I got dragged to the Rashoud facility for saying far less inflammatory things than you have.

Good luck in dodging the hunters, and may the spirits help your people.

I'm sorry to drag this out, but I'm going to have to ask you to clarify. Which attack do you mean, when you speak of the physical challenge? The first time he abducted me, which he told me was because he thought we could make a connection?

Or do you mean the second attack, where I spurned his sexual advances and he grabbed me and jumped to the top of the Fordhiem Spire? Where he almost killed me?

Okay. I've cooled off a bit. I'm going to talk with Flicker before I do anything else. Sorry for acting like a jerk.

Smart man.

You should be in her arms thanking what ever gods you pray to that she is yours, not dying by my hands.

I still owe you a beer.

This is just stupid. This is one of the most lame ass excuses for justifying one's actions I have ever read in this forum. And I will hold you to it. The next time I'm in your neck of the woods slaughtering people enmasse I'll claim it's the 'animal in me' and I'm just trying to help them, my perception of 'help' and 'psychopath' were just a bit skewed, that's all.

For fucks sake, I'm not a mega super brain like some of you, I'll freely admit that. I can't spell for shit, my vocabulary is limited to pretty much profanity and rude comments. And you know what? I'm glad for it. Because all I ever see you Mega-Brains doing is twisting anything you can to the point where you are always right and fuck every one else. You always have to be right... always! So fine PW your fuckin right, go choke on a god damn chicken bone and think of me while your perfect rapist husband watches you gack and wheeze and finally fuckin die like the ignorant knuckle dragging twat you obviously appear to be.

Take it from the animal in me, he's a fuckin rapist. He's a worthless, no good, should have put to fucking sleep a long time ago like the God damn ANIMAL fuck he is.

Have a great fuckin life. I'm done with this thread, you fuckin Lakota make me sick. Not all, just you two worthless ignorant fucks and I hope the spirits find you at your most peaceful moment of sleep and choke you with your own fuckin' entrails cuz I'll be God damned if it would not be a fuckin gift to your people if they had a couple of spokes people who were worth a rats ass.

I hope you slip and fall of your high horse and break your filthy racist neck.

Wow I think Revenant is more cranky than normal.

You can assume what you like. I would think that if Alchemist had seen evidence of rape (Either incident I might add) all the WCK would have known about it. I seriously doubt Jager, Sandcaster, Sean and the others would have let me get away with it or for that matter failed to even bring it up. Now that day in Chicago I was more concerned with just a plain and simple fight that everyone knows the ending of.

Revenant it is strange you are so utterly outraged by the actions you believe I did to a woman who does not seem to have any more like for you than I for whatever reasons. Why now do you seem to fume over it? If you need to then go ask your other WCKs to try and justify your outrage if you seek the truth then you will be disappointed your rage is wasted.

Carver and I made our peace and went our seperate ways over a year ago. Are you just being outraged for her? Of course peace isn't your way, So it's not your fight so all the more reason to stick your dead nose into it?

If you want to have those answers here in the open, I will give them to you as such. However, I think you would rather have them in private. Let me know.

Dead Man: my mate has raped no one. Ever. What he has done was deeply wrong, but he has never committed rape. Believe otherwise if you wish, but I will not stand by and let you continue to tell your lies without challenge.

Step outside the safety of that 500-mile bubble of filth. Meet me on Devil's Tower, Dead Man, and we'll find if you get your wish to see my neck broken... or if I will put you back in the grave you escaped.

THAT IS ENOUGH!

God, you're like little children! Going back and forth like dogs over a bone that's already dug up and taken away by another dog.

Revenant: Please stop helping me, if that's what you're doing. I have never heard a woman claim that Wakinyan raped her; if you've heard different, please provide the evidence to the appropriate authorities and let them follow the legal route. You're a cop; I should not have to tell you this!

All I want are answers, Revenant, and you're not helping me get them. Ptesan-Wi gave me reasons, not excuses. You appear to have backed off (or given up, both work the same for me); please continue to do so. Thank you.

Ptesan-Wi: You fighting Revenant is probably the stupidest thing I've heard in the last year, and I've heard a lot of drivel in the last twelve months. If you lose, you die. If you win, you lose your mate and your freedom. Ask Timeslip how well killing a cop worked for her, no matter how dubious you might consider the title to be applied.

If you've run out of words, and can't summon the strength to ignore him, then at least choose a champion, someone whose death won't set off the rage of your massive mate.

At any rate, you'll have a PM from me shortly.

And to everyone else, if you think Ptesan-Wi or Wakinyan are racists, fine, we get your fucking point. You've stated it quite clearly. But at some point, going back and forth with someone doesn't change their minds; it only cements their position. The only way to stop a racist (aside from the obvious death-causing option) is to show them they are wrong, by your own fair actions to their race or people.

You know, I said I was dropping out of this conversation before I lost all respect for you, but at this moment I couldn't possibly despise you more.

Have you ever been raped? Forced to do something against your will by someone stronger than you who threatened your life if you didn't comply? You can claim he didn't "rape" Carver on a semantic technicality, but by her own admission he assaulted her sexually and tried to kill her, and that's damned well close enough. How dark must those rose-colored fucking glasses be?

Oh, and this little trend of... "Oh, I'll just threaten Revenant." "I'll just call Revenant out because I need to prove something." "I'll challenge Revenant, he'll show up and give me a way to deal with my aggression/hatred of white men/dissatisfaction with my life/issues with my father." ...? I've had it. I've fucking -had it- and I swear to Christ the next person who pulls this shit is going to find me on their doorstep. That includes you, Oh Great White Buffalo Woman.

You complain about "lies," but what about delusions? Wake up. The idealized culture you're trying to resurrect is a hell of a lot colder in the grave than Revenant, and if you want him, you can come through me. As I'm sure you're aware, he's got other business at the moment that's more pressing than forcibly yanking that totem pole out of your ass.

Shoot! There went my plan to challenge him to a spelling bee! Curses, Velvet, curses! Now how am I going to deal with my "Hot for Teacher" issues that I've carried since second grade!?

On a more serious note, Ptesan-Wi, you know I am your friend. I'm going to ask that you withdraw that threat to a Knight. I know how hard Reven can be to deal with - I've been his partner (co-worker, ya dirty pervs) for months now, and I hear his shit all day. He has moments of goodness, though, as do you. I don't want either of you getting hurt (the same goes for Neil, but I was hiking while his challenge went out, so sorry man, I missed most of it), arrested or killed.

There are people who love both of you, and need both of you. Throwing that away, especially when there are other ways of dealing with stuff like this, is wasteful and harmful. To quote someone else here (sorry, lost the name and am too lazy to look it up) - "Nothing good will come of this."

All right, I warned you.

Keep it up and I'm bringing over my "librarian" outfit.

Sean and Carver, you are both right. My words were spoken from anger, anger at the ravings of a creature to whom I should pay no attention. I withdraw my offer to return him to his rightful grave.

Everyone just calm down and take a series of deep breaths. Fighting will not solve any of this.

Ptesan-wi- Calling out a Knight doesn't help you any, so stop it now.

Revenant- You have a duty to the people of Chicago. Part of that is to not go around picking fights with the nova community. We've seen enough nova on nova fighting in Chicago, or involving novas from Chicago, we needn't see any more. If you want to fight so damn bad, spar with one of the other Knights.

Sean- I agree with you on your little quote. Go back to enjoying your vacation, If you really want to go and relax, I have some friends in Tahiti that could set you up on the beach....

Hell at this point I'd send any of you that wants to go at this point so long as you agree to chill out and calm down.

Velvet: I was in the mind of one of my tribe when she was attacked and raped by local wasicu scum. For those minutes that turned into an eternity, I was her, and that piece of human filth was forcing himself into both of us. She and I shared that horror, with me trying to shield her mind from the worst of it at the same